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  1. #1
    . Flynko's Avatar
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    All Doping-All The Time

    This should speed things up on the Operación Puerto front. I wonder if Valverdi is one of the 30.

    From Cyclingnews.com
    Spanish riders seek Puerto deal
    By Susan Westemeyer

    The thirty-some Spanish cyclists involved in Operación Puerto have begun negotiating with the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) for a deal which would allow them to confess and return to the peloton in time for the 2008 Vuelta a España, the Spanish newspaper El País has reported. The group of riders, represented by ex-cyclist Pipe Gómez, has made a complete turnaround on its previously announced position.

    The first meeting occurred Wednesday evening, a few hours after the organizer of the Vuelta announced that he does not want any riders named in Operación Puerto to ride in its race.

    The first attempt at negotiating a deal failed, the paper said, because the riders demanded that the federation set aside the ProTour code of ethics requirement that sanctioned riders not be allowed to ride for a ProTour team for two years. "But that is not up to us, and you know it," federation president Fulgencio Sánchez told them. "The code of ethics is a pact between the teams and the organizers of the ProTour and they are the ones to enforce it."

  2. #2
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    What about Oscar Pereiro? He's Spanish and used to ride for Phonak.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  3. #3
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    I think that could be the start of something good. How about a program that anyone that comes clean, and spills their guts, now gets a 1 year suspension, and agrees to be subject to rigorous testing going foward, but gets the slate wiped clean of anything in the past. Anybody that doesn't take the deal gets the 2 year/4 year ban (and risks getting rolled up by those taking the deal).

    Probably too difficult to organize between UCI, National Federations, and National criminal prosecutors, but if you could organize it, and got enough people to roll, it might actually be an opportunity to clean house.

  4. #4
    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    What about Oscar Pereiro? He's Spanish and used to ride for Phonak.
    That's the name that popped into my mind also. It's gonna be a crazy year in doping, er ah, I mean cycling.


    ... Brad

  5. #5
    DocRay
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    What about Oscar Pereiro? He's Spanish and used to ride for Phonak.
    How about a certain 7-time TDF winner who loved to 'train' in southern Spain?


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    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocRay
    How about a certain 7-time TDF winner who loved to 'train' in southern Spain?

    Nope. He had a guy.


    ... Brad

  7. #7
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    This doseb't mean they are admiting guilt though but might see it as a quicker route. Say they doped, take a one year fine and return to your job. If you look at Landis' case it is almost a year old and not complete. False guilty the faster path?

  8. #8
    DocRay
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    LOL...'false' guilty.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior
    What about Oscar Pereiro? He's Spanish and used to ride for Phonak.
    Yeah, who got third last year, I mean, Congratulations, you just won the 2006 Tour De France!

  10. #10
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocRay
    LOL...'false' guilty.

    Dont get me wrong Doc, I think there all dopers and I'm ok with that. I think they are big boys and if they want to shorten their lives in the name of profit and our enjoyment then so be it. I know other would say what about the riders that don't dope, well, that is their choice. Fair? No, but I dont care because the problem will still exist after the witch hunt is over.

  11. #11
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    considering the relatively minor penalty of sitting out another year and a half and then certainty that they can ride again, there is very much a chance that innocent parties would agree to the settlement. choices: admit that you doped, lose a year and a half, get back to racing or deny, wait a year, two, or three and no guaruntee that they can prove themselves. add to that the fact that i have no faith in wada's procedure for finding truth, and i would go for the settlement even if i was innocent.

  12. #12
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    what I said just more eloquent

  13. #13
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
    How about a program that anyone that comes clean, and spills their guts, now gets a 1 year suspension, and agrees to be subject to rigorous testing going foward, but gets the slate wiped clean of anything in the past. Anybody that doesn't take the deal gets the 2 year/4 year ban (and risks getting rolled up by those taking the deal).
    I'd think 2 yr ban from both UCI and ProTour (instead of the 2 UCI, 4 ProTour) would be both likely and fair. I don't think it would be too hard, though the 1 yr is probably too lenient to fly. Spanish riders can't even be charged with a crime, since anti-doping laws only went on the books a few months ago.

    The only problem is that "rigorous testing" apparently does not do diddly ÷ squat. Dozens of athletes from multiple sports, doping for years. Did any of them flunk any drug tests?

  14. #14
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrennie
    what I said just more eloquent
    lol, my bad jrennie

  15. #15
    Senior Member Trevor98's Avatar
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    This deal makes it looks like the smart tactic is to plead out regardless of guilt. Defending yourself seems mostly about ego and a huge waste of money. Beating the allegations is almost meaningless as everyone will assume your guilt anyhow. Most riders don't have the kind of money it takes to defend themselves against even the most ludicrous assertions let alone the assertions that are coming from OP.

    If these riders only get a year's suspension for their cooperation then a sad president will have been set. A mere allegation of doping will require at least that long to settle out if fought. Copping to the crime and accepting a plea deal would be the smart choice even for the innocent (excepting personal ego). It would be foolish indeed for the truly guilty to risk the full punishment of two years (+ two) when they can roll and get less. Indeed, doping enablers are assuredly improving their plausible deniability and insulating themselves and their clients from future OP style problems. Additionally, it is almost assured that very few of these riders will be past race winners of any type so few will be stripped of wins- most pros are water bottle fetchers.

    Rolling up this doping ring is pointless as they have already been busted. What new information could these riders provide? Perhaps a few more domestics might go down but few would roll over on athletes and staff- the risk to their futures is too great. Doping will continue in cycling until the controls become reliable enough and advance enough to ensure getting caught. OP proves that doping is possible in spite of the testing.

    The only real lesson here is to chose your doping doctor better. Fuentes was inept at subterfuge- Jan as a code name for Ullrich? Perhaps Fuentes was inept enough at running a prohibited doping ring that these guys actually know a lot about his operation and can collaborate the DNA proof that is forthcoming. However, I have a little faith in Dr. Fuentes' compartmentalization of knowledge so only he could perhaps shed a public light on the ongoings of the doping athletes but we will probably never know what he knows as he failed to roll over on his clients and the Spanish have cleared him.

    OP netted a couple of big fish but mostly caught domestics. Whatever happens, OP is another strike against cycling in the masses' heads. How many more such scandals can cycling endure?

    As for Armstrong- what can they do now? Can the UCI even take away his wins anymore? How long can they still do that under their own rules? Banning him would be moot at this point in time.
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    -trevor
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. (Robert J. Hanlon)

  16. #16
    Senior Member Blaireau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
    I think that could be the start of something good. How about a program that anyone that comes clean, and spills their guts, now gets a 1 year suspension, and agrees to be subject to rigorous testing going foward, but gets the slate wiped clean of anything in the past. Anybody that doesn't take the deal gets the 2 year/4 year ban (and risks getting rolled up by those taking the deal).

    I think that eventually, it may come to that... it can't go on much longer without some sort of enforced and unified policy. RIght now the judicial police of Spain is doing the UCI's work, proof --if need be-- of the sheer incompetence of this outfit.
    Big tex is going to jail. Fingers crossed.

  17. #17
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
    I think that could be the start of something good. How about a program that anyone that comes clean, and spills their guts, now gets a 1 year suspension, and agrees to be subject to rigorous testing going foward, but gets the slate wiped clean of anything in the past. Anybody that doesn't take the deal gets the 2 year/4 year ban (and risks getting rolled up by those taking the deal).

    Probably too difficult to organize between UCI, National Federations, and National criminal prosecutors, but if you could organize it, and got enough people to roll, it might actually be an opportunity to clean house.
    How about: confess now and get 1 year. Get caught, lifetime ban. In addition, starting in 2008, all teams will utilize Team Slipstream's testing regimin.

  18. #18
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor98
    If these riders only get a year's suspension for their cooperation then a sad president will have been set.

    Does this mean we can finally ship Bush to Europe for good? Pretty Please???

  19. #19
    Senior Member VT Biker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no
    considering the relatively minor penalty of sitting out another year and a half and then certainty that they can ride again, there is very much a chance that innocent parties would agree to the settlement. choices: admit that you doped, lose a year and a half, get back to racing or deny, wait a year, two, or three and no guaruntee that they can prove themselves. add to that the fact that i have no faith in wada's procedure for finding truth, and i would go for the settlement even if i was innocent.

    I must take issue with your claim that even if innocent, you should admit to doping. Please point out the innocent party that was flagged for doping and the evidence proved otherwise, but the rider was still banned?

    I beleive there was 1 case where a rider proved his innocence.

    Finally - if all riders submit to a Team Slipstream testing regimin, you will have all the proof in the world if someone accuses you of cheating.


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