Lithuania

60 minute .9 mile 6 turn cat4 crit. The round section was on brick cobbles.



I drove 2.5 hours to this race.

I only saw two guys from local teams. It was lonely.

After my last few races I made it a point to start at the front. The race started and I was on second wheel. Finally!

By the end of the second lap I slipped to the back again.

I dont know why this keeps happening. For whatever reason I just dont fight to stay up front.

35 minutes in and I get dropped! This is the first time since my first race this happened.

After 12 minutes of TT at threshold I get lapped and I pull off defeated.

I guess it was bound to happen. In my other 3 crits as a 4 I managed to stay on the very back the entire time yet still finish with the group.

The only difference in this race was the cobble. They were brick and smooth but it really did bog me down each time. I didnt even realize the extra effort I was putting out during this section until a couple laps in. I think the combination of being on the back and having to make two turns really quick into the cobble really blew me up since I couldnt recover much on the cobble. When I eventually got dropped it was in the middle of the cobble.

Regardless I am very discouraged by this result. The only positives to come out of this was that is WAS a fun course and it really made me realize how much i enjoy cornering at speed.

The icing on the cake was it took me nearly 4 hours to get home

here are the numbers

zimbo

A few questions...

- What's your maximum heart rate? (not from a formula)

- Do you feel like people are passing you because (a) you're not strong enough, (b) you're making bad technical decisions, or (c) you're making mental mistakes?

--Steve

YATES

ouch that's a bummer dude..

Lithuania

Ive hit at least 189 several times so thats what I go with

i think people are passing me because of mental mistakes. It could be that I am not strong enough but since I feel that riding entire races in the back is actually harder when you still finish with the leaders I dont think thats it. There were only 35 people in this race compared to the 70+ I am normally used to racing with so I think I wasnt prepared to get to the back so fast. I dunno.

DrPete 

Sorry to hear that, riskus...

I think a lot of the problem is that there are very few "true" crits like this one for us to practice on, and I know I start to suffer when there's that much sprinting going on. And you do need to be very vigilant, especially when the pack gets all strung out, to hold your position. I struggle with that too, and am amazed at how quickly it can happen even though I'm riding strong. One minute you're 5th wheel, the next minute you're 30th in a big strung out pack. Sucks.

MDcatV

Cool looking course, sorry to hear it didnt work out well for you. Keep your chin up and keep working. Anyone who rides has been dropped at one time or another, if they havent, then they're either not challenging themselves properly, are headed to the pro tour, or are lying.

I cant remember your work schedule, but if you can get out to the Greenbelt training series or some of the larger group rides in the area, it would probably be beneficial for you. If you can get to Greenbelt, that'd be best. You might be served well by disregarding breaks and not worrying about only the physical aspect of the workout, but by practicing skills. Some things I've done at GB that I believe have improved my race skills are:

-start wherever dont worry about it, work my way to the front SAFELY using different approaches (following wheels around the edges, through the middle, on my own) within a self-defined timeframe. (i.e., I'll decide that I'm going from back/mid pack to the front in the space of 1 lap by going up through the middle.)
-work on maintaining that top 10 position, especially on key points (turns, natural places where accelerations occur)
-maintaining top 10 position by *safely* jumping on wheels as people pass (this is a good power workout as well as you're constantly jumping, similar to "microburst" stuff DrP describes)
-putting myself on another strong riders wheel and staying there

Also, doing jumps or microburst interval sessions in a parking lot where you do the acceleration, then go through a corner, do another acceleration, repeat. Kind of unconventional to do this way, but you can certainly reap rewards from it by learning to corner at speed and under duress.

There are lots of technical crits coming up over the next few months (leonardtown, kelly cup, crystal city, hagerstown, wilmington, altoona, and others I cant think of right now), so developing these skills will be beneficial to your race success. Also will help keep all your skin where it's supposed to be.

*new*guy

Riskus

Didn't you post about doing 1 minute intervals on the trainer at some point rather late last week? I dunno about others, but that sort of effort a few days before a race seems very counterproductive to me.

IMO you may have shot yourself in the foot this weekend.

jrennie

position??? You put out a higher average wattage IN the group then solo. At that rate I would be looking for some wheels to suck or try to attack and go off the front.

Lithuania

I did greenbelt last week and I hope to do it every week for the reasons you mentioned. That course seems difficult to move around in so its good practice for me.

Im pretty decent at cornering at speed I think. I like technical crits. The more I think about this race the more I believe I was really done in by the cobble section. I basically only had one section in the entire race to recover and that was the long straight stretch. Half the time I had to accelerate there too to catch on the group so that didnt help.

Lithuania

Yeah I did some on friday but I was also totally off the bike on both thursday and friday. I didnt feel weak on sunday but you are probably right anyway.

Lithuania

I think I put out a higher wattage in the group because I was constantly at the back and had to surge so much after each corner. If I was in better position near the front I feel my wattage would have been lower. I also think 244 may actually be above my threshold so that can explain a lot.

jrennie

What powermeter are you using, if its a powertap do you have the cadence sensor on there or hub calculated? 174rpm's solo and 193 rpm's in the group?

Lithuania

I have the power tap with cadence sensor. i get all kinds of crazy readings from it for max cadence so i just ignore them. There is no way I am really hitting numbers as high as it reports.

merlinextraligh

To state the obvious, it took more power to stay in the group than you had, as shown by the fact that your power in the group was higher than when you went OTB.

So there are a couple of possibilities: 1) you need to be fitter, 2) you need to be more efficient in the group, or 3) you had a bad day.

You can figure out No 3 by comparing it to other power files of yours.

As for 1 and 2, its always good to be more fit, but I'm betting its mostly about being efficient. You've just got to work to hold that position at the front when you get there. And when you do fall back, use the lulls, and the times others are slowing for curves to move up.

Also try to move up on the downwind leg of the course. And look for wheels that are going up in the group and let them tow you.

And when you are on the back, anticipate the accordian effect, let a little space develop in front of you before turns, so you can roll into that space, and conserve speed coming out of the corner.

I'm betting a little more work on conserving energy in the pack will make a big difference for you.

waterrockets 

One thing that I found in the two crits last week, is that it really might be better to start off in the back so you can learn where the course allows you to move up. You also get to see what your field looks like from the back, so you'll recognize it later if you end up in the back.

If the cobbles were taking that much out of you, you might have had too much air in your tires -- if it shakes you around uncomfortably, then you need to let some air out. Of course, a preride lap would be necessary to determine this.

It depends on the person, but I don't think intervals two days from a crit are going to mess with you too much. If I take too many easy days, my head starts to think I may not know how to go hard any more. Much better for me to feel confident than to worry about 40-48 hours not being enough to recover from a workout.

The higher power in the pack totally makes sense -- you were working beyond your fitness at that time, and you self-regulated when you were off the back. It does sound like there's an efficiency issue though. Not drafting close enough, not staying on the downwind side, not downshifting for corners, touching your brakes, not downshifting after touching your brakes, riding behind somebody who's getting gapped, etc.

LT Intolerant

Looking at your power file you burned some serious 20-30 second matches (20 in the first 5 minutes)! Do you/did you train for this? Here's a Hunter Allen prescribed workout that might help...

10 minutes blocks. Each block is 15 seconds ON (150% of FTP)and 15 seconds OFF (50% of FTP) - do up to 3 blocks. You'll be trashed after this workout. I know i am!

Also I'm with MDCatV. Find a strong wheel and stick to it like glue. Make that your race goal and you'll be surprised at how your pack position/finishing position improves.

Last, don't beat yourself up over one race. Everyone has bad days. Like you said you usually ride the back and never get dropped.

gene r

zimbo

What you are saying is true but the phsiological systems he used when trying to stay with the pack were totally different from those used solo. In the pack he was essentially either coasting or anaerobic; on his own he was essentially entirely aerobic.

--Steve

Lithuania

Im sure there are fitness issues. There always are. I could always be more efficient. I usually seem to ride a lot smarter to make up for my fitness issues. Today I didnt. I also think I did have some what of a bad day.

The head wind was on the long straight section and that was the best place to pass. Although this course was so wide you could really do it anywhere. I was having a hard enough time in the down wind section to do any passing.

I ride in the back A LOT so I am very good at anticipating the accordian affect. This is the first race I wasnt able to hang on a wheel through the turns and I think part of that is because I was behind a some what sketchy weird riding junior. I think im just a lazy racer and that finally killed me here.

I dont think this was any harder a race then my others in terms of power.

Here is the output from my last two hardish crits with fields that were at least twice as big. Both these races were faster and since there were bigger fields wouldnt you assume it would be even harder in the back?

As you can see my average power was higher in this race but the durations were longer in the others. Maybe that extra 10w is my breaking point.

Lithuania

I wasnt having a hard time with the bike being rough or anything. I ride a steel bike so rough road doesnt really bother me. It was just noticeably harder to push through that section. Maybe it was just because I was worn out by the 3 previous corners? All I know was this is where it seemed like I need to use the most effort to stay with everyone. Ofcourse once the cobbles ended you had 3 quick turns to make and then a long head wind section.

Lithuania

Thanks Gene, Im not really trying to beat myself up. Im just trying to learn. I think this is the funnest part of having a power tap.

I guess I dont do any specific training for races like this.

Here are two graphs from other races and I dont think I burned any less matches in these and I managed to not get dropped.

Lithuania

i love that I can post a file from a race and you guys can analyze it like this!

LT Intolerant

("Im not really trying to beat myself up") I guess I was "projecting" here because that's what I was prone to do.

As to the other files having the same profile in the end you can simply attribute yesterday's result to an off day on the bike.

BTW that Hunter Allen workout will go a long way to preparing you to dip into your anaerobic reserves and then recover. Just completing 3 blocks is a challenge! Good luck.

gene r

Lithuania

Gene,

I will try that workout sometime. I think Im just going to work on threshold work for a few weeks first.

waterrockets 

Yeah, I'm not talking about you being slowed because you were uncomfortable, but because rough roads slow bikes down. Lower tire pressure fights this effect. May not have been a problem for you though. Was there a hill there or right before it?

Lithuania

No it was perfectly flat. There was the turn into the cobbles though. I did pump up my tires a little higher then normal before the race. I had no idea that would make it worse.