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Old 05-16-07, 10:58 PM   #1
dmotoguy
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ep-no

All of this talk of doping has got me thinking that i need to raise my hemocrit a few points.. haha

Does anyone know if this stuff works?

Is it safe?

should I go have blood tests done before and after to see if it really worked?
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Old 05-17-07, 04:05 AM   #2
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Don't do it.
Don't do it.
Don't do it.
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Old 05-17-07, 05:05 AM   #3
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It's an iron supplement. Eat more meat, liver, and/or beets, and take a multivitamin like 1 a day Maximum or something like that.
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Old 05-17-07, 05:18 AM   #4
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Doping RULES.
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Old 05-17-07, 05:19 AM   #5
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^^^It's a vitamin with iron, although I will say that calling it "EP-NO" is a smart piece of marketing considering the target market...
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Old 05-17-07, 05:44 AM   #6
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Fooled me. I thought he was really talking about EPO.
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Old 05-17-07, 05:47 AM   #7
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From Wikipedia on iron supplements:

Precautions
Children who ingest tablets may become intoxicated, in which case they should be taken to an emergency department. Some formulations (like carbonyl-iron) may be safer.


Kids these days.
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Old 05-17-07, 06:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmotoguy
All of this talk of doping has got me thinking that i need to raise my hemocrit a few points.. haha

Does anyone know if this stuff works?

Is it safe?

should I go have blood tests done before and after to see if it really worked?
Some of the local racers have been touting the effects of EP-NO and claiming they're pretty good. We've got a local "pro-triathlete" who has a hematocrit of 50, and he's a big fan of EP-NO.
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Old 05-17-07, 07:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete
It's an iron supplement. Eat more meat, liver, and/or beets, and take a multivitamin like 1 a day Maximum or something like that.
Its always easier to just take a pill than eat liver and beets.

There are customer reviews that show a gain of 3-4 hemocrit, but those are just reviews.
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Old 05-17-07, 08:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmotoguy
Its always easier to just take a pill than eat liver and beets.

There are customer reviews that show a gain of 3-4 hemocrit, but those are just reviews.
True--the pill is easier. I take a multi-vitamin myself for that very reason. It's tough to scour the shopping list to make sure I'm getting all the vitamins/minerals I need.

I would guess, honestly, that the 3-4% gains in Hematocrit are due to some degree of dietary insufficiency of Iron, B vitamins, or Folate, all of which are needed to make hemoglobin, and the EP-NO fixes that. Think of it this way--EPO is what tells the bone marrow to make more red blood cells, but without Iron, Folate, B12, Vitamin C, etc., the MCHC/MCV of those cells might not be normal, i.e. they won't be the optimum size/shape and won't be carrying as much hemoglobin.
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Old 05-17-07, 09:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete
True--the pill is easier. I take a multi-vitamin myself for that very reason. It's tough to scour the shopping list to make sure I'm getting all the vitamins/minerals I need.

I would guess, honestly, that the 3-4% gains in Hematocrit are due to some degree of dietary insufficiency of Iron, B vitamins, or Folate, all of which are needed to make hemoglobin, and the EP-NO fixes that. Think of it this way--EPO is what tells the bone marrow to make more red blood cells, but without Iron, Folate, B12, Vitamin C, etc., the MCHC/MCV of those cells might not be normal, i.e. they won't be the optimum size/shape and won't be carrying as much hemoglobin.

So, Dr. Pete -- does it help to take B12, Folic Acid, Iron, Vit C supplements (on top of healthy diet) in order to ensure that red blood cell counts remain high, especially when training and racing hard?
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Old 05-17-07, 10:00 AM   #12
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Referring to Dr.Pete's comments, if that's all EP-NO is (an iron supplement) , why not just go buy a multi-vitamin. I mean we should probably all be doing that anyways...

Is this just some big marketing thing?

Liver is gross. Beets are ok, but not all that exciting. What else has iron in it?
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Old 05-17-07, 10:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Referring to Dr.Pete's comments, if that's all EP-NO is (an iron supplement) , why not just go buy a multi-vitamin. I mean we should probably all be doing that anyways...

Is this just some big marketing thing?

Liver is gross. Beets are ok, but not all that exciting. What else has iron in it?
The 1968 Dodge Dart.
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Old 05-17-07, 10:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
What else has iron in it?
Steel frames. That's why they're so real.
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Old 05-17-07, 10:29 AM   #15
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Steel frames. That's why they're so real.
In case of emergency you can file down bits of it to eat during a race. That's why I use cork bar wrap - it's edible!
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Old 05-17-07, 12:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Liver is gross. Beets are ok, but not all that exciting. What else has iron in it?
FIGS

..and that's my excuse for eating at least 2 packages of Fig Newmans a week.
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Old 05-17-07, 12:17 PM   #17
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There's some evidence that Iron is associated with heart disease in men. Notice that multi vitamins with minerals formulated for men such as One a Day typically do not include Iron. If you're eating a good diet, and not anemic I would not take an Iron supplement.
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Old 05-17-07, 12:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
What else has iron in it?
Eggs. Along with some high-quality protein, and cholesterol - a steroid.

I'm juicing, baby. To the tune of three omelets a week.
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Old 05-17-07, 12:27 PM   #19
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EPO-No Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 30

Amount Per Serving:
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 500 mg
Iron 4 mg
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine HCI) 20 mg
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcyanocobalamin) 300 mcg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Zinc Picolinate 60 mg
Biotin 300 mcg
Blood Enzyme Complex 2.5 g
Beet Root Extract and Dessicated Liver

Naturally occuring in Liver and Beer Root:
Iron, Folic Acid, Zinc, Magnesium, Beta-Carotene, Phosphorus, Vitamins, A, B2, B3, B6, B12, Choline, Calcium, Copper, Potassium, Sodium.

Interesting to compare to One a Day for Women, which also has iron. One-a-Day has a 4.5 times as much iron, but Epo-No has much larger doses of other constituents. Would be dangerous for men to get all that iron, as we don't bleed it out every month, and it would build up in the liver.

One-a-Day for Women:



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Old 05-17-07, 12:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete
It's an iron supplement. Eat more meat, liver, and/or beets, and take a multivitamin like 1 a day Maximum or something like that.
When I was in college at the College of San Mateo back in 1991, our coach took us to the infamous Balco labs for trace mineral analysis. They took blood, urine & hair samples from us and tested them for trace minerals. Based on the results we were each given a recommended regimen of mineral supplements (iron, copper, chromium, zinc & magnesium).

I was the only one on the team who didn't need to take iron since my iron levels were very high. The lab tech said "you must eat a lot of red meat". and I said "no, actually I'm a vegetarian". I really don't know where I got my iron, though I suspect it was from iron enriched breakfast cereal and pizza dough since that was mostly what I ate in college. Or, maybe my body is just good at absorbing iron.

Anyway, my performances improved when I took the supplements, then continued to improve after I stopped taking them. I concluded that I was just maturing and getting stronger and that the supplemets didn't have anything to do with my improvement.

I haven't taken any supplemets of any kind since I started cycling and don't feel that they would do me any good.
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Old 05-17-07, 02:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by kensuf
Some of the local racers have been touting the effects of EP-NO and claiming they're pretty good. We've got a local "pro-triathlete" who has a hematocrit of 50, and he's a big fan of EP-NO.



I've got a natural hematocrit of 46 and get dropped frequently. Trying to raise it to 50 will increase the chance of my wallet being lighter with no increase in ability.
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Old 05-17-07, 02:03 PM   #22
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my mom's is in the low to mid 20's i believe.. i hope im not the same way, maybe i should have it checked.
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Old 05-17-07, 02:35 PM   #23
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I've been using it for over a year now. I seem to be fine other than going blind and growing a third arm.
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Old 05-17-07, 02:54 PM   #24
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^^^ But how many watts can that third arm put out?
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