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  1. #1
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Riis no longer TdF champ

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...ory?id=2896276

    Tour no longer lists Riis as champ after doping admission
    Associated Press

    PARIS -- The Tour de France no longer considers Bjarne Riis the winner of the 1996 race after the Danish cyclist admitted using performance-enhancing drugs.

    Because of what he admitted, he is not the winner of the Tour de France. Riis did not win.

    Lawyer for cycling's cycling's governing body

    "We have removed him from the list" because of the doping admission, Tour spokesman Philippe Sudres said Thursday. "We consider philosophically that he can no longer claim to have won."

    Riis, now retired, admitted last month that he used the blood-booster EPO from 1993-98, including during his '96 Tour victory.

    Sudres acknowledged that Tour organizers cannot formally revoke Riis' title, which would be a first in the race's 104-year history.

    That decision is up to cycling's governing body, the UCI, which said last month the time limits for sanctioning Riis have expired. However, UCI has urged him to return his yellow winner's jersey.

    "From a disciplinary point of view, you cannot strip him of the title but it is possible not to mention it anymore," UCI lawyer Philippe Verbiest said Thursday. "Because of what he admitted, he is not the winner of the Tour de France. Riis did not win."

    Riis is now the director of a Danish cycling team, but its main sponsor, CSC, is considering whether to stop supporting the team financially.

    The Riis revelations were another blow to cycling. The sport has endured a string of doping scandals in the months leading up to this year's Tour, which begins July 7 in London.

    The 2006 winner, American Floyd Landis, faces losing his title and being banned for two years after he tested positive for synthetic testosterone at last year's race. He is awaiting a decision from an arbitration panel on whether the victory will stand.

  2. #2
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Raising the question, who did win the 1996 TDF? Surely the ASO is not going to list Ullrich as the 1996 winner. Perhaps finally a French winner, Virenque?

    They haven't updated the history section of their website as of now.

  3. #3
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Not Virenque, he was involved in Festina.

    Will Zabel still remain as the points winner? Does EPO even provide an unfair advantage to sprinters (granted one could argue EPO helped him finish the tour to secure the jersey in Paris)?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  4. #4
    DocRay
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    oh yeah, Virenique would NEVER dope.

  5. #5
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    Not Virenque, he was involved in Festina.
    Tongue in cheeck.

  6. #6
    Senior Member CCFISH81's Avatar
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    Here is the Top 10 from 1996. Place Your bets on the winner...

    1. Bjarne Riis (Den) Telekom 95.57.16
    2. Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom 1.41
    3. Richard Virenque (Fra) Festina 4:37
    4. Laurent Dufaux (Swi) Festina 5:53
    5. Peter Luttenberger (Aut) Carrera 7:07
    6. Luc Leblanc (Fra) Polti 10:03
    7. Piotr Ugrumov (Rus) Roslotto 10:04
    8. Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme 10:26
    9. Abraham Olano (Spa) Mapei 11:00
    10. Tony Rominger (Swi) Mapei 11:53

  7. #7
    Senior Member CCFISH81's Avatar
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    Someone with more time picked this as the top 5 A.D (After Doping)

    1. Peter Luttenberger: (was 5th)
    2. Piotr Ugrumov: (was 7th)
    3. Fernando Escartin (was 8th)
    4. Abraham Olano (was 9th)
    5. Tony Rominger (was 10th)

  8. #8
    Giving you the business. Cypress's Avatar
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    I'm sure he's devastated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderator
    Dear Cypress,

    You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.

  9. #9
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
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    Give it time. Keep exposing more dopers.
    We'll have 190 DNFs from 1996.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCFISH81
    Someone with more time picked this as the top 5 A.D (After Doping)
    3. Fernando Escartin (was 8th)
    4. Abraham Olano (was 9th)
    Considering who these guys rode for, if they weren't doped, nobody was.

  11. #11
    Senior Member CCFISH81's Avatar
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    ^^ Who are they , what are the implications?

  12. #12
    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCFISH81
    ^^ Who are they , what are the implications?
    Banesto, Kelme, pleasssssse.

  13. #13
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    wow, so there may be at least two years where the event had no recognized winner. if that doesn't illegitimatize the sport i don't know what would.

  14. #14
    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    You have to go down to 22nd to find someone who hasn't been implicated in doping one way or another. The whole thing is a laugher.
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

  15. #15
    Senior Member Trevor98's Avatar
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    Riis got away with doping and won. Going back now to "correct" it is meaningless and hollow. Too bad this can of worms can't be closed again. Every "solution" to this mess will be awful so I think pro-cycling should just throw up its hands and leave the finish list as it stood for the past ten years.
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  16. #16
    raodmaster shaman
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    agreed. what the hell are they going to accomplish by trying to re-write the history now? as if they could know with any certainty who was or wasn't doping?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
    You have to go down to 22nd to find someone who hasn't been implicated in doping one way or another. The whole thing is a laugher.
    I out my money on 27th.

    1. Bjarne RIIS (Dan) en 95h57'16"
    2. Jan Ullrich (All) 1'41"
    3. Richard Virenque (Fra) 4'37"
    4. Laurent Dufaux (Sui) 5'53"
    5. Peter Luttenberger (Aut) 7'07"
    6. Luc Leblanc (Fra) 10'03"
    7. Piotr Ugrumov (Rus) 10'04"
    8. Fernando Escartin (Esp) 10'26"
    9. Abraham Olano (Esp) 11'00"
    10. Tony Rominger (Sui) 11'53"
    11. Miguel Indurain (Esp) 14'14"
    12. Patrick Jonker (Aus) 18'58"
    13. Bo Hamburger (Dan) 22'19"
    14. Udo Blts (All) 25'56"
    15. Alberto Elli (Ita) 26'18"
    16. Manuel Fernandez-Gines (Esp) 26'28"
    17. Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) 27'36"
    18. Laurent Brochard (Fra) 32'11"
    19. Michele Bartoli (Ita) 37'18"
    20. Evgueni Berzin (Rus) 38'00"
    21. Vjatceslav Ekimov (Rus) 43'58"
    22. Stefano Cattai (Ita) 48'03"
    23. Laurent Madouas (Fra) 53'15"
    24. Arsenio Gonzales (Esp) 55'28"
    25. Massimiliano Lelli (Ita) 55'35"
    26. Alex Zulle (Sui) 56'47"
    27. Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) 1h05'12"

  18. #18
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadgator
    agreed. what the hell are they going to accomplish by trying to re-write the history now? as if they could know with any certainty who was or wasn't doping?
    well, riis basically came out and admited that he won the TdF using drugs. with an admission like that, what's the organization supposed to do? i think their response is reasonsible.

  19. #19
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    with an admission like that, what's the organization supposed to do?
    Revoke CSC's license?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Trevor98's Avatar
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    Revoke CSC's license based on what? That the owner/DS was a doper 10 years ago? Such action would cost several innocent riders of today their jobs immediately to punish their boss' sin 11 years ago. How is that right, fair, or even effective. Such an action would be a bit over the top and would absolutely ensure that Riis' voluntary admission is the last such admission- who would risk so much. Demanding that Riis give up his DS job as penance for his sins might work but firing all the CSC riders is a bit much.


    What is the UCI supposed to do about this admission? Anything they do will be overly harmful and only really symbolic. Their best course of action would be to publicaly condemn his actions, and that of his teammates, ask them to help find a meaningful solution and leave the record books alone. Any reshuffling, even leaving the winer blank, is absolutely too complicated by later doping admission/busts to get a real answer. Reshuffling the win would be meaningless as the money, fame, and post-win career are beyond the influence of the UCI or ASO. Given that so many of that year's winners have been seriously linked with doping (admissions, busts, and DNA evidence) it is simply silly to try to figure out what would have happened without those dopers. The tactical race would have been too different to even attempt to guess how it would have turned out. Additionally, we now know that many riders doped after the 1996 TdF but are completely ignorant of their actual 1996 doping patterns. We know the Festina riders were doping in 1998 and we can guess that they were doping in 1996 but we can't prove it. If the UCI attempts to blank out the '96 winner several later banned riders that placed high will surely make a stink- asserting that they only started doping after '96.

    The fallout from this circus will likely make the Landis case look down right orderly.
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  21. #21
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    +1. Put an asterisk on it and move on.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  22. #22
    Senior Member rufvelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by query
    I out my money on 27th.

    ...


    and I'll go with :

    22. Stefano Cattai (Ita) 48'03"

  23. #23
    Senior Member rufvelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung
    Revoke CSC's license?
    Riis can continue to own and operate a 'team'. It is up to CSC to decide whether to support his enterprise or not. I'm hoping they bail just like Phonak did and send a message. This thing isn't going to be sorted out soon - maybe 10yrs to get it under control somewhat. So either accept and allow doping, or continue to fight it as best you can.

  24. #24
    Banned. El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
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    I understand why they stripped him of his title but with what is happening with Jan and others it's going to make it hard for anyone to come out and admit to doping. I really feel like the only way to get the sport reasonably clean is to let these guys come forward with no repercussions and tell all and name names. Then if they test positive again a lifetime ban. If a rider who admits to doping is facing being stripped of his wins, legal action to repay earnings and a four year ban from the pro tour no-one is going to come forward.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Snicklefritz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
    I understand why they stripped him of his title but with what is happening with Jan and others it's going to make it hard for anyone to come out and admit to doping. I really feel like the only way to get the sport reasonably clean is to let these guys come forward with no repercussions and tell all and name names. Then if they test positive again a lifetime ban. If a rider who admits to doping is facing being stripped of his wins, legal action to repay earnings and a four year ban from the pro tour no-one is going to come forward.
    +1

    So what happens now? Are they going to declare someone else the winner? And if they did, it would kind of seem silly in a way because, as others have pointed out, they were prob ably doping too. I doubt any blood is saved from back then for tests.

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