Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-11-07, 04:57 PM   #1
Coyote2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Coyote2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone follow this race rule?

Hi all. I have now done a few road races, and they are all subject to the rule that riders from different cats may not work together -- and in each race, riders from different cats have worked together -- albeit not riders in contention for the podium.

Is this just a rule that is not really observed or enforced, or is there something I don't know about this?
Coyote2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 05:12 PM   #2
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
I never heard of such a rule. In a cat 3/4 race for example in a break that is mixed 3/4 of course you work together. Now in seperate races if a cat 4 field catches up to a cat 3 field (rare) then you cannot work together.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 05:15 PM   #3
dmotoguy
Edificating
 
dmotoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Bikes: Spooky + Sachs
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Its been enforced in the RR's I've been in. I got dropped hard and fell back to the group behind me, the official came up next to me and made sure I didnt join their group as they passed.
dmotoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 05:16 PM   #4
jfmckenna
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
Posts: 5,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
yeah that is a seperate race and that is the rule I missunderstood the OP.
jfmckenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 05:39 PM   #5
recursive
Geosynchronous Falconeer
 
recursive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
Posts: 6,312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've never seen this rule violated. I assume the OP meant different races, not categories, as many races are combined categories, and that wouldn't make any sense.
__________________
Bring the pain.
recursive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 05:56 PM   #6
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Bikes: Many
Posts: 5,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
In our Masters road race yesterday, we passed a woman who had been chewed up, spit out, and dropped, and she her riding style showed it. But since we weren't moving very fast, I told her to jump on and take a free ride back to the S/F.
She tried, but couldn't.

I think there are some situations where it's acceptable to let them co-mingle. In this case, it would have been OK to get a solo unprotected rider off the open road a little earlier. I seriously doubt she would have used us to catch her field. We weren't catching anyone, but that's an entirely different thread.
EventServices is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 06:55 PM   #7
cslone
Quarq shill
 
cslone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Around here I have seen it enforced many times. They are pretty specific about it in the pre-race meeting a lot of times too.
cslone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 07:35 PM   #8
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
I know the rule, but I've never seen a situation where it was applicable. Most of the RR courses have features that make intermingling of two groups damn near impossible; if the guys in the lower cats were capable of hitting the power climbs at a certain rate, they should be in another race. Obviously not a problem in crits.

Odd thing I've noticed: sandbaggers or the lazy sprinter types are much more rare in hilly RRs, even those with long flat finishes. Harder to hide from the wind if everyone is slogging up the climb at 15 per.

All of this being said, I generally try to follow all of the rules of the race. Never knowingly or intentionally violated any rules, except for the odd madison sling here and there...
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 07:52 PM   #9
thatguy
hehe... member
 
thatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes:
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's happened in every road race I've ever done. All were dropped riders, however. (Including me). Here in Florida, if you're not in the front group, the officials don't really seem to care what you do.
thatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 07:55 PM   #10
DrPete 
Dirt-riding heretic
 
DrPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I got dropped in an RR last year and the women's breakaway group caught up with me. I felt like the moto would've run me off the road before I saw any of that draft...

It appears to be quite strictly enforced by the officials around here.
__________________
"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
DrPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-07, 09:00 PM   #11
VosBike
Outgunned and outclassed
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Springs, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the rule is mostly in effect so people won't intentionally drop back to help riders breaking away from a race behind them.
VosBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 10:42 AM   #12
Coyote2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Coyote2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This was the situation in my last RR: I got gapped on a big climb, then when the road flattened out, I was eventually passed by a group comprised of about three riders from my category (35+ cat 4) and a couple of riders from a category that had started ten minutes after my cat (55+ open). They were all working together, and I joined them. I did, however, try to stay on the wheels of the guys from my cat, but we were all working together.

I suppose the refs were watching other riders who may have actually been in contention for something (i.e., not us). So I am still wondering: if a ref saw us working together, would we likely have been warned, DQ'd, or what?
Coyote2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 10:56 AM   #13
Cypress
Giving you the business.
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Bikes: Ridley Noah, Giant Trinity Advanced, Specialized Crux
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it's a concern to you, come to MT where there are only two cat races. P/1/2/3 and 4/5. The masters are usually thrown into the 4/5's for fun.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderator
Dear Cypress,

You have received an infraction at Bike Forums.
Cypress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 12:56 PM   #14
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EventServices
In our Masters road race yesterday, we passed a woman who had been chewed up, spit out, and dropped, and she her riding style showed it. But since we weren't moving very fast, I told her to jump on and take a free ride back to the S/F.
She tried, but couldn't.

I think there are some situations where it's acceptable to let them co-mingle. In this case, it would have been OK to get a solo unprotected rider off the open road a little earlier. I seriously doubt she would have used us to catch her field. We weren't catching anyone, but that's an entirely different thread.
Yeah, I popped off the back of the 2nd climb at the Iron Horse Classic (SM3), and got caught by a 5-woman break including Inga Thompson and Rebecca Twig. I hung with them for 5 minutes until I couldn't hang on any more. There was a moto right there, and nobody said anything to me.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 12:58 PM   #15
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Around here if you're OTB, you're OTB. And if the wheel truck passes you, you're SOL because that usually means the road behind them is open to traffic. And you better not flat on clinchers, else you're walking home.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 01:47 PM   #16
Coyote2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Coyote2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets
Yeah, I popped off the back of the 2nd climb at the Iron Horse Classic (SM3), and got caught by a 5-woman break including Inga Thompson and Rebecca Twig. I hung with them for 5 minutes until I couldn't hang on any more. There was a moto right there, and nobody said anything to me.

Waterrockets, what was your time for the Iron Horse? Just curious.
Coyote2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 01:54 PM   #17
'nother
semifreddo amartuerer
 
'nother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern CA
Bikes: several
Posts: 4,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is the text of the rule, from the USCF 2007 Rulebook: "3B5. Taking pace or assistance from any outside means is forbidden, including holding on to a motor vehicle or taking pace from riders in a different race that is concurrently on the same course [relegation or disqualification]."

So to clarify, the rule does not necessarily prohibit working with other category riders, it prevents working with people in other races. As such it may even prevent riders within the same category from working together, if they are in different races (i.e. Cat 4 Elite and Cat 4 Master 35+).

I have yet to see the rule be enforced by a race official around here, but the general disparity between riding abilities usually takes care of it anyway. And if it doesn't, many of the riders themselves seem to be aware of the rule...I've heard guys warning other riders to get out of their pack because they're in a different field (race).
'nother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 02:41 PM   #18
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote2
Waterrockets, what was your time for the Iron Horse? Just curious.
DNF After all the pro women's scenery rode by, I hopped out and hitched a ride back to Durango in an RV. Bad day (this was 1993). The next day, I got 5th in the cross-country MTB sport race, with a field of 100, so I made up for it somewhat (my 2nd MTB race).
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-07, 11:36 PM   #19
thatguy
hehe... member
 
thatguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes:
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung
Around here if you're OTB, you're OTB. And if the wheel truck passes you, you're SOL because that usually means the road behind them is open to traffic.
ditto
thatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 AM.