jsigone

what are the typical cornering speeds of a 4/5 race? 4 corners, 1/2 mile course?

fly:yes/land:no

how many peeps are you racing against? how wide are the turns? my guess would be between 24 and 28 mph if the course is two or more lanes.

cslone

Really depends on the course. We've got a course where we are easily 30-34mph through it because it's on the end of a downhill. Speeds really should just be slightly less than whatever speed you are carrying through the straight, all things being right. So if you are pulling 25 through the straights, 23-25 through the corners at the front.

There shouldn't be much of a slowdown to turn in a 4 corner city crit.

cat4ever

More than 15 less than 40

'nother

I always wonder, when someone asks a question like this, how is this information going to be used?

jeffremer

The first crit I did last summer had a variety of kinds of corners, and all smooth pavement, so here's some real world data. Field size was about 30 cat 5s.

* Corner 1 - wide 90 degree to a short steep downhill from a flat: 19-24mph
* Corner 2 - narrow 90 degree to a long flat: 24-28mph
* Corner 3 - medium hairpin slight positive grade continuing to long uphill finish: 19-24mph

The Albany crit I did the next Saturday which was a standard four corner course with a slightly downhill finish and a slightly uphill backside. Same field size, smooth pavement, nice wide turns, mid pack was cornering consistently at about 24mph.

jeffremer

Practice cornering at speed? Not much use because a solo 4/5 corners much differently than a pack of them. Probably to get an idea of how fast a crit is.

yonderboy

Especially because the better question should be "what is the average cornering clearance needed for a crit corner?" The answer always depends on which line you're taking.

The K-man (aka obra3) has a good article about this on his blog: https://obra6.blogspot.com/2007/05/ca...it-primer.html

merlinextraligh

Typically 26-27mph +/- at the front. 8-10mph at the very back. Hence the need to be up front.

mkadam68

I've been in crits where the corner speed is 25+. I've also been in a crit (Manhattan Beach GP) where two of the corners were around 10mph.

The_Convert

about 43 mph

curiouskid55

For discussion's sake , a flat 90 degree turn, at least three car lanes of pavement, no slower than the straight leading into the turn. I remember in particular my first race ever that we didn't slow at all as the corner aproach speed was 28 miles an hour into turn one. Then it got faster as the race went on.

jsigone

So I can practice cornering speeds and holding a firm line at those speeds. I also need to find the leaning angle where the pedals clip the ground.

I have a small simulated course near my work I practice on, one straight is slight up hill, with a DH on the opposite side. I'm working on cornering speed and acceleration from corner to corner. Trying to find effective ways to have a second or two to recover a hair. I've chalked off 5 different lines in each corner, ranging from outside, middle and inside hard. This is a drill I'm doing so I can enter in a corner at a different lines like ride 5+ riders abreast. Trying to see what the speed difference is per line and acceleration output needed to get back up to speed. Rather then picking the fastest lines, I'm working with the slowest line. Pace I'm using is 23 on the uphill leg and 27 on the others.

The_Convert

dont think so much...

bac

It's totally dependant on the course.

... Brad

'nother

Well far be it from me to discourage anyone from practicing. Lord knows I need it myself. But as has been suggested, knowing the "average" speeds is pretty useless. I mean, you're not going to sit up and quit if the pace is faster than average or what you've practiced. Just do the best you can and let The_Convert's words ring in your head

jsigone

yah but I don't want to be in a race where I can't match the cornering speeds.......or should I say lack the confidence to hit corners at nearly 30mph

jeffremer

Like 'nother said, everyone could use more practice, so go for it. Just don't be one of those dinks that think outside-inside-outside is the only way to corner in a crit. "Holding a firm line" is a good way to think about it - be predictable, follow the wheel in front of you but look over that guy's shoulders to see ahead. This is what the guy behind you is doing and if you go to the curb you are likely to take his front wheel out as well as everyone to your inside. The best line in a crit is the safest line, not always the most efficient line.

jsigone

exactly, that is why I chalked off lines through the corners, none of them touch or cross, like a running track. I'm going from mountian decents when you do go outside, in, then out, I KNOW i can't do that in a crit. And that is what I'm practicing.

'nother

I think his point was more like you have to be able to follow/hold a line (i.e. the wheel in front of you, if there is one). And, especially in a 4s/5s race, that line is likely to be a lot less predictable than your chalk marks.

Again, it won't hurt anything to practice, if nothing else than for feeling out the bike, how it handles, etc. but just don't expect an actual race to be anything like your practice sessions.

merlinextraligh

Your drill sounds ok, and probably is a decent idea to do a time or two.

Better practice would be riding with fast groups.

Find a good steady wheel, and follow that person through the corner. If they can make it through on that line at that speed so can you.

jsigone

my team rides every saturday, one day a week isn't enough for me.......most of them ride solo during the week.

waterrockets 

I really can't practice cornering at race speeds, so don't freak out if you're like me. I have no problem cornering hard in 28mph crits on race day. If you can corner with some fast guys for practice, that would be cool, but solo you're probably just not going to get there speed-wise.

Learn how to intentionally countersteer to make corrections.

Voodoo76

Ideally you find a small industrial park or other loop that's deserted on weekends, and have a buddy with a motorcycle. Great way to get a lot of cornering (and speed work) in.

mkadam68

This sounds like a great idea.

The best practice I have for cornering at speed is to do crits. It's a bit on the expensive side, but it works wonders.

I remember my first crit, a master's 3/4/5 race. I was constantly accelerating out of the corners to catch back on. I slowly lost position throughout the race until the last lap, I had nothing left when they wound it up for the sprint. I rolled across the line at the back of the pack.

But, I learned quickly. After a couple more, I could corner with anyone and would consistently be at the front into the last lap (only contested the sprints when I hadn't burned too many matches going at primes, etc )