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Old 06-24-07, 08:50 AM   #1
ElJamoquio
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FTP Power Delta: Road Bike to TT Bike/Bars

So what's your FTP power on your road bike (drops) vs. TT position (different bike or aerobars)? How big, in your experience, is the difference between the two?

Thanks...
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Old 06-24-07, 08:53 AM   #2
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Wish I could tell you but FTP is irrelevant to me on a road bike, so it has not been tested.
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Old 06-24-07, 08:58 AM   #3
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THEN GUESS! I demand an answer from you, Dr. W. (Pretty Please). Twenty minute power deltas are acceptable.
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Old 06-24-07, 09:38 AM   #4
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I just reviewed cycling peaks for the season. Every 20 minute power is about 30 watts higher on the TT bike. I simply don't do sustained Threshold or above threshold blasts on the road bike (Though when I get to do longer climbs in France, maybe) unless I am in a paceline. My norm 20 minute power on the road bike has been around 390 for twenty minutes with my norm TT bike power at 383 in the same week. The average road bike power was much less though.
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Old 06-24-07, 09:56 AM   #5
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Thanks! I appreciate you looking for me.
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Old 06-24-07, 10:18 AM   #6
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I don't know what my FTP is on my TT bike as my coach always has me do my field tests on my RR bike. I do know that it took me awhile to get faster on my TT bike than I was on RR bike. Getting used to the TT bike and dialing in the fit were crucial to going fast on it.
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Old 06-24-07, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
I don't know what my FTP is on my TT bike as my coach always has me do my field tests on my RR bike. I do know that it took me awhile to get faster on my TT bike than I was on RR bike. Getting used to the TT bike and dialing in the fit were crucial to going fast on it.
+1 on the adaptation period. I'm not an expert or a TT stud (well, studette), but I can say it took a while for me to feel comfortable on my TT rig. Part of it was dialing in the fit and the rest was getting used to the new position. The first month or so was hard. Now that I've been riding it a few times a week for 2-3 months I feel much better.

I haven't done quantitative comparisons between the TT and road bike yet. However, it feels as if the power on the TT rig is maybe about 8-10% lower.
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Old 06-24-07, 01:27 PM   #8
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Now it's been commented that my TT position "can't" be optimized because I actually prefer it to being in the drops. Perhaps, but my back is pretty damn flat in the aerobars. I also like to ride forward on my saddle, so there really wasn't that much change.

So for me - just based on flat, calm road comparisons, I think it's pretty even.
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Old 06-24-07, 01:48 PM   #9
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Mine doesn't drop. It's arguably higher on the TT bike, actually.

Like has already been said, adaptation and training on both bikes is important.
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Old 06-24-07, 05:54 PM   #10
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I tend to do 20-30 minute intervals more on the TT bike, but if you look at 10 minute or so power, I am 20-30 watts higher on the road bike. My perceived effort on the road bike is lower.
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Old 06-24-07, 06:12 PM   #11
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I guess I'm the minority but I'm about 20w lower on the TT bike over the road bike.

DrW- what was the avg power for 20 minutes, 390 is FN HUGE
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Old 06-24-07, 06:16 PM   #12
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Yeah... I was about to say that... If you're pushing 390W for 20m, please, call Disco up now and get yourself a job to replace Senor Leipheimer!
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Old 06-25-07, 05:52 AM   #13
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Yeah... I was about to say that... If you're pushing 390W for 20m, please, call Disco up now and get yourself a job to replace Senor Leipheimer!

Hey UT were you riding on William Canon yesterday around 11am?
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Old 06-25-07, 08:10 AM   #14
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Highly likely. Only the part between Brodie and MoPac, though... I was headed over to 360 for some endurance zone hill riding!
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Old 06-25-07, 08:59 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by UT_Dude
Highly likely. Only the part between Brodie and MoPac, though... I was headed over to 360 for some endurance zone hill riding!
I saw you on my way to Lowes, I had just finished 6x6minute intervals at cp90 on SoMoPac. Shoot me an email if you want to do some riding over the next few weekend. I'm moving back to Cali sometime before Aug 1.
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Old 06-25-07, 09:32 AM   #16
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Leaving Austin?!?!?!?!?

I will definitely do that. Unfortunately, until July 13th i'm super tied to da coach's plan, since TT nat's are then. After that, however...
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Old 06-27-07, 10:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrennie
I guess I'm the minority but I'm about 20w lower on the TT bike over the road bike.

DrW- what was the avg power for 20 minutes, 390 is FN HUGE
383 watts. Plus, I was dying. Plus, it was on a short ride (1.5 hours). Plus, I weigh in at 160 lbs. It's not that great really. There are guys around here who have that for a FT. I could NOT do that for an hour (this year...maybe next??)
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Old 06-27-07, 10:26 AM   #18
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383W for 20m is still crazy. Please, talk to Mr. Bruyneel ASAP!
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Old 06-27-07, 10:31 AM   #19
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Uh... yeah. 383 W is terrible for a 160 pounder.

Of course, I'm 165 lbs and I do 270ish for 20 minutes. Dr W., you're pretty darn quick.
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Old 06-27-07, 10:49 AM   #20
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Yeah, even if you round up on weight, down on power, you've still EASILY got a Cat 1 TT W/kg there.
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Old 06-27-07, 10:57 AM   #21
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Can anyone link me to photos of an ideal TT bike position? That would be helpful.

Yes, Dr. W. is pretty darn quick. Actually in NJ the correct term is Fing Fast, but it is generally stated in a longer and more colorful manner.
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Old 06-27-07, 11:06 AM   #22
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Pcad --- post some of you riding, i'm sure lots of us would have fun with that.

Here's me:



That's about what you're going for, except, if you wear an aero helmet, you want less of a gap between the helmet and your back. You want to drop your head down as much as possible.

You also want to remember that you're likely going to be sitting on the front of the saddle, and pushing as far forward as you can on your aero bars.

That all kind of depends, though.... My bike is set up to be UCI legal for nationals in 2 weeks, and if I weren't bound by that I could probably come up with a better position by moving the extensions forward and the saddle forward...
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Old 06-27-07, 11:07 AM   #23
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Also, look at Slowtwitch and Bike Tech Review -- there's a million (literally) postings of TT positions there. Mine isn't really based on any of them per se, but it's the same general idea.
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Old 06-27-07, 11:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad
Can anyone link me to photos of an ideal TT bike position? That would be helpful.
There is no one ideal position. Every rider is different, and now there is data to show that even for one particular rider, the best position changes with yaw angle. So work from the general guidelines and test and modify from there.

Originally posted to RBR by Andy Coggan:

"Not to be disagreeable, but I disagree. If my goal were to set myself
up in an aero position with minimal drag and I didn't have access to a wind
tunnel, I'd just drop the elbow pads far enough down below the saddle
that my shoulders (acromion process) were within a couple of inches of
being level with my hips (head of greater trochanter), move the elbow
pads in to where my arms were as narrow or perhaps narrower than my
thighs when viewed from the front, tilt the aero bars up
ever-so-slightly, and keep my head down. I'd then go out and ride the
bike - hard - in that position and see how far foward (and thus up) I
needed to move the saddle to where my thigh-torso angle was similar to
the "working position" on my road bike. I'd then ride the TT bike for at
least one hour - hard! - each week for at least 6 weeks before any race.
Sounds crude, I know, but for a flat TT this neandrathal approach will
probably get you to within about 1 km/h of your maximal speed."
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Old 06-27-07, 11:27 AM   #25
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Very true. There are some "general rules" as to certain things that make one more aero, but aero isn't everything. Go look at all of the world class Time Trialists' positions... Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Cancellara, Millar, etc.... They're all different, but they're all good at it.
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