TDF Strategy: Question
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TDF Strategy: Question
Caisse d'Epargne says they're going with two leaders (just as T-Mobile used to do with Ullrich toward the end), Pereiro and Valverde at this year's TDF. I think it's a huge mistake as you lose chances to push one guy into the lead since you fear using up the other guy and then having the first falter, but I don't have evidence of this other than what I observed from t-mobile. Does anyone know of any teams that won the TDF doing this?
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1986 - LeMond, Hinault.
Not the TdF, but 2005 and 2007 Tour of Georgia - Discovery cashed in with their alternate leader both times.
That said, I don't think it's a good strategy.
Question - I am surprised either of those guys are making it to the starting line this year. What happened?
Not the TdF, but 2005 and 2007 Tour of Georgia - Discovery cashed in with their alternate leader both times.
That said, I don't think it's a good strategy.
Question - I am surprised either of those guys are making it to the starting line this year. What happened?
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
1986 - LeMond, Hinault.
Not the TdF, but 2005 and 2007 Tour of Georgia - Discovery cashed in with their alternate leader both times.
That said, I don't think it's a good strategy.
Question - I am surprised either of those guys are making it to the starting line this year. What happened?
Not the TdF, but 2005 and 2007 Tour of Georgia - Discovery cashed in with their alternate leader both times.
That said, I don't think it's a good strategy.
Question - I am surprised either of those guys are making it to the starting line this year. What happened?
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Banesto 1991
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
Last edited by ed073; 07-05-07 at 06:31 PM.
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There have been several winners that were not the designated GC man, nor the "co-captain". So it seems a smart strategy might be to keep your #2 man out of the lime light.
Riis - Ullrich
Delgado - Indurain
And in the Giro
Simoni - Cunego
Riis - Ullrich
Delgado - Indurain
And in the Giro
Simoni - Cunego
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Might as well support two riders for as long as you can. Then as soon as one starts falling off. focus all efforts toward one rider.
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Originally Posted by ed073
Banesto 1991
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
Last edited by botto; 07-06-07 at 03:04 AM.
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I'd say Caisse d'Epargne and Pereiro both know he doesn't really have a chance of repeating last year's performance. It's just PR to brag about how strong their team is. If Valverde does blow up, I could see them riding for Karpets before Pereiro.
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The only teams that ever put everything into one basket at the TDF, are when a squad has one of the "patrons" of the sport.
Hinault, Armstrong, etc...
Otherwise, there is plan A, B, C, D and Z.
Hinault, Armstrong, etc...
Otherwise, there is plan A, B, C, D and Z.
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more to the point, what were Milram gonna do with Petacchi and Zabel in the same team?
Not that it matters now that Petacchi's gone, but still... Zabel as Ale-jet's leadout man?
Not that it matters now that Petacchi's gone, but still... Zabel as Ale-jet's leadout man?
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Originally Posted by bad timmy
more to the point, what were Milram gonna do with Petacchi and Zabel in the same team?
Not that it matters now that Petacchi's gone, but still... Zabel as Ale-jet's leadout man?
Not that it matters now that Petacchi's gone, but still... Zabel as Ale-jet's leadout man?
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Making a kilometer blurry
Originally Posted by ed073
Banesto 1991
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
Telekom 1996
Telekom 1997
Super U 1989 (they should have won )
<ack>
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Originally Posted by Super Guanche
I'd say Caisse d'Epargne and Pereiro both know he doesn't really have a chance of repeating last year's performance. It's just PR to brag about how strong their team is. If Valverde does blow up, I could see them riding for Karpets before Pereiro.
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Making a kilometer blurry
Originally Posted by botto
iirc zabel has been quoted as saying that he's contractually obliged to help petacchi.
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Making a kilometer blurry
Originally Posted by botto
nope. the quote was from milano san remo (iirc).
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
Caisse d'Epargne says they're going with two leaders (just as T-Mobile used to do with Ullrich toward the end), Pereiro and Valverde at this year's TDF. I think it's a huge mistake as you lose chances to push one guy into the lead since you fear using up the other guy and then having the first falter, but I don't have evidence of this other than what I observed from t-mobile. Does anyone know of any teams that won the TDF doing this?
But Pereiro will be riding for Valverde. No Doubt.
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I think it's better to have one GC man so the team all works together for one rider instead of splitting the team as happened in '86 with Hinault/Lemond. Having Ullrich, Kloden, and Vinokourov on the same team didn't help them; they all sat around waiting for each other to go.
Not having a definite GC rider didn't help Disco last year; when nobody seemed to do well in the Pyrenees the team just drifted.
Not having a definite GC rider didn't help Disco last year; when nobody seemed to do well in the Pyrenees the team just drifted.
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Originally Posted by bbattle
Not having a definite GC rider didn't help Disco last year
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It's a strategy that can work, or fail terribly. It's really about how the riders respond to the multi-leader philosophy, and how well the DS can keep everyone on the same page.
... Brad
... Brad
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The other weird thing is Kloden actually should be the favorite to win the whole thing. he's the only one to place on the podium twice (2nd and third) and he even placed 2nd when all the drug users were still there. But for some reason he doesn't seem to want to be a leader. When he went to Astana, everyone originally thought it was for more money but it turns out he was offered the same money AND T-Mobile was also offering to make him the outright team leader. So the question is, did he leave t-mobile because he was afraid of having the responsibility of being the leader or because of their new anti-doping plan?
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
The other weird thing is Kloden actually should be the favorite to win the whole thing. he's the only one to place on the podium twice (2nd and third) and he even placed 2nd when all the drug users were still there. But for some reason he doesn't seem to want to be a leader. When he went to Astana, everyone originally thought it was for more money but it turns out he was offered the same money AND T-Mobile was also offering to make him the outright team leader. So the question is, did he leave t-mobile because he was afraid of having the responsibility of being the leader or because of their new anti-doping plan?
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T-Mobile was more serious about cracking down on doping than Astana (my view). Also, Astana exists primarily because Vinokourov had connections with the wealthy Khazak who is now their sponsor - so him being the team leader is rather a given. I'd be completely talking out my butt to say this had anything to do with Kloden's riding with Astana (it could just have been that he and Godefroot are pals), but for those of us who aren't insiders, it does cause some pondering.
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Originally Posted by waterrockets
Système U!
<ack>
<ack>
1988 was the final season they were known as Systeme U. Super U for 89, Castorama from 1990 to 1995
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Making a kilometer blurry
Originally Posted by ed073
1988 was the final season they were known as Systeme U. Super U for 89, Castorama from 1990 to 1995
I had a Systeme U wool and satin L/S jersey/jacket thing. Those were the days, but I was only able to wear that thing like twice in Colorado -- it was too warm.