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Old 07-17-03, 10:27 AM   #1
dragracer
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What is this jack@$$' problem!!????

I don't care what this fool says....Tyler is a STUD!!!



Taken from velonews.com.............

Also in the mix is Tyler Hamilton, who is beginning to take some grief in the press for his decision to continue. Case in point, 1987 Tour winner Stephen Roche, who characterized Hamilton's effort as "ridiculous.

Here's the wire story we pulled up this morning.


Roche: Hamilton show is "bad for cycling"
Tyler Hamilton's brave bid to finish the Tour de France has been dubbed "ridiculous" and worthy of some candle-lighting in the religious city of Lourdes by former Tour de France winner Stephen Roche.

The Irishman, who in 1987 won the Tour, the Giro and the world championships, feels the brouhaha surrounding the American rider's efforts are doing the sport no favours.

Hamilton has been racing with a double fracture of his collarbone,
diagnosed by the Tour's official doctor, since a mass crash marred the Tour's first stage on July 6.

The 32-year-old CSC team leader, who had been expected to gain a top five finish in the centenary race, has been given painkilling injections and his bike has been adapted so that he can ride in less pain.

He survived three days in the Alps and even managed to attack Lance
Armstrong, his former boss at U.S. Postal, on the daunting climb up the Alpe d'Huez.

But Roche, who saw his own team-mate Pascal Simon crash out with a shoulder injury while wearing the yellow jersey during the 1987 Tour, is not convinced.

"It's definitely been blown out of proportion. It's totally ridiculous," Roche told AFP prior to the start of the 11th stage from Narbonne to Toulouse.

"If the doctor says it's broken or fractured then he shouldn't be racing.
It's as simple as that and if he falls off the bike then his shoulder could be sevrely damaged," added Roche, who feels that Hamilton's determination to finish the race after his successful season so far is bad for the sport.

"I mean, it's not doing any favours for the image of cycling. For the past few years cycling has been getting its act together (vis-a-vis doping) and the commentators on TV are going mad about Hamilton - 'he's in the saddle, and
he's out of the saddle etc etc'.

"But I think all he and his team are doing is giving the public a gun to shoot us with.

"People watching what's happening are going to be asking themselves, 'is this guy for real' or they are going to be saying 'what kind of **** (drugs) are they giving him?'

"Sitting in the saddle with a fractured collarbone is hard enough, getting up out of the saddle is even harder, and attacking is almost impossible."

Hamilton is in fifth place, 1min 52sec behind Armstrong ahead of Thursday's 11th stage.

Roche says the American might achieve his aims - if he lights a candle or
two in the holy city of Lourdes, where the sick and crippled seek miracles.

"A top five finish? I think it's still possible. He got through the Alps okay and so the Pyrenees shouldn't be any problem.

"We'll be passing nearby Lourdes soon, so maybe he should light a candle."
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Old 07-17-03, 10:35 AM   #2
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i guess thats one way to get yourself into the papers.
i'd be interested to know what drugs they are giving him if it's even true. i thought most pain killers were banned.
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Old 07-17-03, 10:46 AM   #3
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Hmmmm sounds like Roche is doing a little PROJECTION here??? maybe feeling guilty but not wanting to admit that back when he was in, they were doing drugs, and maybe a little subconsciously mad at his teamate in yellow at the time crashing and not continuing??..And here is Tyler just hammering along broken/injured and all and still doing it!!.....Screw Roche's thinking or words on this, keep it up Tyler!!


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Old 07-17-03, 10:51 AM   #4
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Originally posted by caadman
...........Screw Roche's thinking or words on this, keep it up Tyler!!

Benjamin

My sentiment EXACTLY!!!
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Old 07-17-03, 10:54 AM   #5
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i'd be interested to know what drugs they are giving him if it's even true. i thought most pain killers were banned
He's probably just getting toradol, an injectible NSAID like motrin. Tyler kicks ass! This guy is just a wussy....wah, wah, wah!!
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Old 07-17-03, 10:58 AM   #6
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Well... I don't know about the ramifications as far as the "image" of cycling to the general public but I can say that whenever I'm out there (not even in a race) and I'm thinking to myself, "screw this, I'm miserable... screw the next 30 miles of my planned ride... I'm turning around and going home", I think about Tyler finishing 2nd. place in the Giro last year after crashing in the early stages and suffering a broken shoulder and more recently his performance in the Tour. I then, as they're so fond of saying, "dig deep" and continue on. Oftentimes, just those thoughts are enough to give me my second wind and I finish my ride feeling good. I'm not trying to compare myself with Tyler but I do know he inspires me and the selfish part of me says that's all that counts so definately Go Tyler!
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Old 07-17-03, 11:02 AM   #7
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And I used to really like Roche.
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Old 07-17-03, 11:31 AM   #8
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Stephen Roche is one of the genuine good guys in the history of this sport. He is also one of the classiest bike riders to ever spin the pedals. Anyone who wants to learn how to ride a bike well could do no better than to watch Stephen Roche and emulate his form and style. He was grace in motion. Always took time for the media, and was never a prima donna. This man suffered for his job, and rode the last 6 years of his career with serious back problems. He knows about pain.

Having said all that, I disagree with his views and feel it it is unfortunate he decided to make them public. I'm sure that Hamilton has carefully considered the impact of his injury, more carefully than Roche is able to. Personally, if he can do it, it's his decision. Reinjuring it in another accident is not going to be life threatening. This isn't a heart murmur or concussion.

I think Hamilton's choice reflect's positively on the sport in a time when so much negativism exists.
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Old 07-17-03, 12:05 PM   #9
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Your 15 minutes are up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think it does wonders for the sport. It shows the toughness of the athletes. I shows they have heart and character. It shows the significance of the event. If a man would risk being handicapped for the rest of his life, just to finish, then it is significant. You would think that someone who raced the Tour before would get it.
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Old 07-17-03, 12:20 PM   #10
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I read this and couldnt believe this guy. He was basically saying 'hes trying to hard'. Whats up with that? If you are having a stellar season and are in great form and have been looking forward to this tour for a while AND have been favored for a podium spot or at least top ten I would do ANYTHING to keep going. I'll end this with what everyone else is saying...
Go Tyler...make your old 'boss' work for it!
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Old 07-17-03, 01:23 PM   #11
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i had no idea he had a double fracture.... that's what I have..... so i can personally attest to how amazing it is that he's still riding....
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Old 07-17-03, 04:53 PM   #12
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All I can say is WTF?

Roche is a jerk with an attitude.

Bad for the sport???? Again, all I can say is WTF?
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Old 07-17-03, 06:12 PM   #13
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I consider Roches comments much worse for the sport than the courage of Tyler....I used to really respect Roche but he's barkin up the wrong tree here. I don't know about you but I'm already shopping for a jersey..." Most Courageous Rider" caricature of Tyler grinning with teeth ground off...
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Old 07-17-03, 08:13 PM   #14
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I agree with Don...

Stephen Roche has earned the right to speak ( although he has that right regardless, doesn't he?). It is very unusual for guys to continue with collar bone or shoulder injuries and Roche is a conservative voice on most things, so it is no surprise to hear his take on Tyler's courageous effort.

I believe Hamilton should continue to have the last word on this health matter and I hope the Tour Doctor doesn't take the decision out of his hands, as often happens....

-but the abusive comments aimed at Roche in this thread are misplaced. He is only articulating a traditionalist's view which will be circulating widely in the peloton, amongst the directeurs and journalists and at the roadside.
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Old 07-17-03, 08:56 PM   #15
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Sounds like a true moron to me.

His comments are as useless as tits on a boar hog.
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Old 07-17-03, 09:08 PM   #16
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I think Roche should reduce the amount of Guinness he consumes before he makes comments like that...

Give 'er, Tyler!!
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Old 07-18-03, 02:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by don d.
Stephen Roche is one of the genuine good guys in the history of this sport. He is also one of the classiest bike riders to ever spin the pedals. Anyone who wants to learn how to ride a bike well could do no better than to watch Stephen Roche and emulate his form and style. He was grace in motion. Always took time for the media, and was never a prima donna. This man suffered for his job, and rode the last 6 years of his career with serious back problems. He knows about pain.

Having said all that, I disagree with his views and feel it it is unfortunate he decided to make them public. I'm sure that Hamilton has carefully considered the impact of his injury, more carefully than Roche is able to. Personally, if he can do it, it's his decision. Reinjuring it in another accident is not going to be life threatening. This isn't a heart murmur or concussion.

I think Hamilton's choice reflect's positively on the sport in a time when so much negativism exists.
I'm with you don. Roche is one of the sports true gentlemen and I can remember seeing him win his tour (in the same year he won the Giro and the Worlds) so I think he has the right to speak. He is also someone who made time for the press and fans, this fan still remembers a few words with him in 1987.

And you are right about his style. Paul Kimmage in "A rough ride" mentioned how the bike appeared to be an extension of Stephen's hips.

I disagree that Hamilton should pull out, however. I can see the point Roche is making, one on the possibility of Hamilton shortening his career if he crashes and has a further injury, and less so re the suggestion that he can only go on by taking painkillers and that fuelling press speculation.


Roche is entitled to his opinion, particularly as a previous winner and because for the latter part of his career he struggled on while suffering back and knee problems. he was asked to comment so why shouldn't he, just as we comment here. his is a public forum is it not?

As for those who suggest he was on drugs, look to the history books. He was at the top of the game in the late 80's and was consequently tested all the time. I can't recall any suggestion of it and indeed he struggled on with knee pain rather than take painkillers for fear of using something banned.

As to his bravery, if you look at the credits of the Tour intro's on TV (at least over here) you can see a shot of him blacked out having climbed one of the mountain stages in searing heat. Wuss my *rse!

Re the 15 minutes of fame comment. Very few people have had the big three in one year, I think that buys him some time.

Yes I'm a Roche fan.

I've been watching the Tour since the early 80's on TV and have been lucky enough to see the final stage in Paris twice. I've also spoken to a few of the participants and I have to say Roche shines brighter than most because of his gentlemanly attitude, respect for the history and tradition of the sport, his style when riding and his open approach to his fans.


My own view is Allez Tyler! I hope he makes the podium (and stays with the rubber on the road)
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Old 07-18-03, 07:01 AM   #18
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europeans are whiners and not as mentally tough as americans. simple. we have seen it over and over....and not just in cycling.
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Old 07-18-03, 07:31 AM   #19
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Quote:

"europeans are whiners and not as mentally tough as americans. simple. we have seen it over and over....and not just in cycling."


I live for insights like this......


-a bit less heat and some more light would improve this thread.
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Old 07-18-03, 07:40 AM   #20
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I have nothing but respect for Steve Roche. However, one unfortunate tradition he seems to be following is a propensity in recent years for otherwise honorable ex-pros to make totally inappropriate comments about current riders though they are usually aimed at Armstrong. The thing that puzzles me most about Roche's comments is that he is the kind of tough-minded cyclist that would have done exactly what Tyler is doing. Does he have more respect for riders who abandon with lesser injuries or because they don't like the mountains?

What one has to realize about Tyler, aside from his obvious grit, is that, based on some comments he has made in the last few months, he views this as a key opportunity, maybe even his last realistic shot at a podium spot. Or that he really needs a good result this year as a springboard for a win next year. It may not be but at 32, in what he considers the best conditioning he has ever achieved, with some great wins for super confidence it may be difficult to get all the pieces to come together so well. If his collarbone breaks completely, he is no worse off than he would have been.

Just look at the guy - 5th on gc at 1:52! I don't understand how anyone can have any issue with his staying in. And what about his Giro finish last year with a broken shoulder? I can't wait to see how he does today.
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Old 07-18-03, 09:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiPHRaPH
europeans are whiners and not as mentally tough as americans. simple. we have seen it over and over....and not just in cycling.
jeez. You are so insightful. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Old 07-18-03, 09:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainmanP
................. look at the guy - 5th on gc at 1:52! I don't understand how anyone can have any issue with his staying in. And what about his Giro finish last year with a broken shoulder? I can't wait to see how he does today.
And now 4th on the GC!!! Picked up one spot in the individual TT(stage 12)
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Old 07-18-03, 09:46 AM   #23
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I respect Roche, one of the sports true greats, he was
the quiessential Ironman, and in my opinion Tyler is
cut from the same cloth.
I totally agree with the statement about the risk of further
injury. If Tyler goes down again, he risks much more serious
damage to his collarbone/shoulder etc.
Don't misunderstand (I'm not wearing Nomex), I don't want
Tyler to abandon, its just that Roche was spot on here.
One thing that seems to be forgotten in all of this
discussion about Tyler, He has 2 fractures of the collarbone
and NO DISPLACEMENT, The bone isn't in 2 pieces (or more),
he isn't being stabbed by bone shards, its just "cracked" for
lack of a better term. (CB is this correct?).
I think that everyone hears Broken CollarBone and imagines
it much worse than it actually is.

This too will pass, how many people remember that
Lemond questioned Lance's being drug free 2 years ago?

Marty
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