merlinextraligh

Without an American team in the TDF, what are the odds that Versus provides signficant coverage to the TDF next year?

The loss of the Discovery Channel Team will certainly decrease interest amongst casual fans.

Presumably Slipstream may get an invite next year, but I think that's far from guaranteed, and they won't have the same following and recognition as Discovery, particularly if they don't have a GC contender.

I think things are going to get a lot darker for pro cycling fans in the US before this thing turns around.

USAZorro

Who will become the commentators' new favorite team?

Off on a tangent here, I think a salary collapse would be healthy for many of the other major sports. Getting paid millions to wear a Yankees uniform and sit on a bench half the season has always struck me as obscene. Given some of the dynamics of the economy lately, this might be a harbinger of a broader change in attitude towards professional sports.

patentcad

The UCI is looking for rocket scientists like you. Send them your resume immediately. They're not quite done with the utter destruction of the economics of pro cycling.

merlinextraligh

I was at the Dodger's game last week when Bonds was at 754, The game was completely sold out, and outfield tickets were on CL for $300. Major League sports are not being substantially hurt by drugs (at least from an economic point of view.)

For a number of reasons, cyclings woes are specific to cycling. Superbowl Ads are still going to be over a million bucks for 30 seconds, regardless of whether cycling crumbles.

Bantam

I'm not sure how cycling can crumble, because as long as there are two kids with coaster brake bikes there is going to be a bike race. As long as CDale, Trek, Scott, Cervelo, Orbea, and etc are making bling bikes there are going to be backyard Cat5 races. As long as anyone is racing a bike there will be those that stand above the rest and there will be someone will to pay them money to ride.

bikindan

If Versus scales back or stops TDF coverage it won't be that big of a deal. They have greatly cut back on their overall cycling coverage from say as recently as 2002. They used to show all three grand tours along with a number of classics and shorter stage races live. Now, basically it is only the Tour.

Cycling.tv is much better although you don't get Phil or Paul. The beauty of modern technology...

FatguyRacer

+1 for Cycling.TV. Lets hope they get to do the tour. Maybe even get Phil and Paul too.

nitropowered

Its because they dont test that often, or even punish the athletes that fail the drug tests. Major sports are run by money and politics and they don't necessarily do whats right

USAZorro

I'm no rocket scientist. I'm just a pissed off cycling fan who thinks remarkably little of both the content and economics of many of the "major sports".

USAZorro

Once again, the man from the last century's wit and genius are borne out. https://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2199

timmhaan

this reflects poorly on america's role in cycling...

here we've had a tour winner every year for almost a decade. everyone loves a winner, right? then, when things get a little rough, nobody wants anything to do with it.

VT Biker

No one wants anything to do with Lance or Bruyneel. Why might that be......?

I'll let you figure that out. I think the worm has turned on Lance.

merlinextraligh

^
I think Armstrong wants to get further removed from cycling while his reputation is reasonably intact.

harlond

How does this apply to baseball fans?

Also, can you name a professional sport for which a salary collapse was healthy?

roadwarrior

These are good points...

For example, the Olympics has tons of drug scandals and, lo and behold networks and sponsors pay up to be involved.

The NFL has had drug issues for years. Yet TV networks and sponsors line up to pay huge dollars.

MLB is widely known to have drug issues, big ones, yet, by gosh there are sponsors and television and bushel baskets full of money.

The NBA...good grief.

Soccer, the good soccer, has had drugs for years...

What's the problem with bike racing?

To make the point that sponsorship dollars are going away from cycling purely due to PED's is BS because it's not happening in other sports.

It's all about ROI and if they get ROI they'll play regardless (here's where the goody two shoes anti-everything especially corporate profit soapboxers will join in...)

roadwarrior

Oh really...

Their latest promotion...



Man...

I am sure Trek will tell him to take a hike, too...

...chuckling...

roadwarrior

Honest question....

Why is this not happening with, for example, the NBA? Or the NFL?

USAZorro

I am admittedly biased. I do not like baseball, and despite my interest in the sport when I was younger, I find it exceptionally boring to watch. The average guy can watch a game on TV, but the ticket prices are just nuts - like I want to spend $200+ to take my family out to fall asleep in the presence of a bunch of millionaires doing their thing . I also think that the salaries are ridiculous. They are part of the sickness of income disparity that will cause much consternation in the broader society.

Hockey has undergone some revisions in their previous fantasy-land salary structure. The sport goes on without some of the crazy escalations that drove teams to the brink of bankruptcy in order to have a chance of being competitive.

Trevor98

Are you incapable of distinguishing between the greater sport of cycling and the specific part of that sport that is the profession cyclists? Can you not see a difference between a kids racing their beach cruisers and the professional riders? You are correct in that some companies will always be willing to pay people to race bikes but that is a hallow argument. At some point the amount of money that is paid to those riders will be insufficient to race for a living and that is the death of pro cycling.

Whether "Major League sports" (I assume you mean more than just the MLB, what about AAA ball or college sports?) are being hurt by drugs is impossible to know. Would they be doing better without them? Would they be doing worse? I would contend that PEDs have helped most other sports in the past couple of decades

For example, the Sosa vs. McGuire HR contest (clearly fueled by PEDs) revitalized baseball following years that the sport was in a slump following the '94 strike. Baseball has certainly recieved a boost from Bond's HR record chase which has certainly been controversial enough to put it in everybody's minds. His HGH fueled performance has increased the profile of both his sport and his otherwise abysmal team. Football has had less specific examples but the whole league has been effected by drugs- bigger, stronger players are more exciting to watch and the popularity has soared.

This brings up the interesting point that it is the instability of the sports that is far more damaging than any doping. Most people and therefore business don't care about doping that isn't in their face but many fans (eyeballs to advertisers) will simply find other entertainment if the sport is disrupted by anything.

Back to the OP, as I understand it Vs. get more viewership in July for the TdF than it does for the rest of the year (NHL might have changed this figure some). They simply won't give that revenue up because Disco is gone.

timmhaan

NBA and NFL obviously have a massive fan base, roots in american culture, and ticket sales that make people rich. cycling in america doesn't really have any of that.

i also think cycling is viewed more as a personal sport. much in the way tennis or swimming or running is. the public doesn't necessarily understand or appriecate the team dimension. because of that, there are really only a handful of cyclists that people even know of. so when the bad news starts hitting and they see these guys caught up in doping scandals, it's very easy to write everyone else off as well and lose interest.

VT Biker

There is a BIG difference in attaching a product to a Cancer Research initiative and attaching your corporate name to a Team. There is little risk in the Livestrong Foundation connection, because the cancer angle provides enough of a goodwill cover.


As for Trek - they are a cycling equipment manufacturer who supported Lance throughout. Of course they will support the team until the wheels fall off. In part because there is not nearly the same PR problem for the non-title sponsors. Remember, it is Team Disco, not Team Trek that gets reported whenever the media mentions the team. Plus, Trek and other frame/component manufacturers are kind of stuck marketing in the sport they sell equipment in, no? I mean, what are Trek's options - advertise in NASCAR?


Again - if Corporate American trusted Lance and Bruyneel to run a clean program, the money would have come in. Corporate America I am sure does lots and lots of research on these guys before committing money. I have a hunch their research on this team resulted in the opinion that the risk of future embarrassment was too high. Or - the $45 million was based on the fact that they implements a Slipstream testing program, and Lance and Bruyneel balked, because they know, if that occurs, they cannot produce the same results that they have in the past 10 years.

1slowbastard

JumpTV just bought cycling.tv, so who knows what will happen. Phil and Paul would be a downgrade IMO.

https://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=759251

Trevor98

Honest answer,

Most people don't really care about the cheating or other bad personal behaviors. Many people identify that they should be offended and rant about the problems but few people actually change their entertainment habits.

If fans were actually incensed by athlete's bad behaviors then the NFL and the NBA would be in serious trouble as their thugs are far more reprehensible than mere dopers or cheaters. I think that the real threat to a sport is any short term reason for fans to find alternative entertainment- whether that is severe disruption of a major event (TdF) or a player strike. When people find new entertainment to replace an old event many don't come back to the original. The NHL, which prior to their strike had ratings problems, has suffered tremendously in profitability because of that strike. MLB had the same problem following their '94 strike. The NFL had their last major strike when entertainment wasn't so easy to find so most people came back.

Most people on these forums are cyclists and thus are fans of the entire sport and will continue to support the professional aspect of the sport because they like multiple aspects of the races. Most people are not dedicated cyclists and most people that picked up on watching cycling Pro Cycling did so for entertainment. There is easier entertainment to watch.

FatguyRacer

Hmmmmm.

Looking back on it. I might tend to agree with you on Phil and Paul. I listened to this years tour mostly at work on Eurosports live feed with Sean Kelly and David Duffield. Those two guys were pretty dam good. And how can you not like Sean Kelly. He wasnt pack filler like Paul or Bobke. His opinions carry weight. The Cycling TV guys were pretty good too, but a bit unfamilar. At least the color guy was a pro of recent vintage unlike Paul or Sean so his insights were a little more up to day with out that ineveitable comparisoins to the good old days. The thing about Phil is the voice. He is THE English voice of Cycling. He's like comfort food.

DocRay

LOL..I think the "*winners" reflect more on America's role in cycling than who watches TV.