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Thread: New Power Meter

  1. #1
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    New Power Meter

    Since no one's posted it here yet... Looks like it could be interesting, though I don't like the limited crank choice.

    http://quarq.us/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

    I get the impression it's supposed to be cheaper -- like, PT cost.
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    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
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    I'm going to check it out at interbike but the vunerability to a chain drop is a problem and limited crank options so far.

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    Realist Greg180's Avatar
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    I always love competition in the market place. We shall see if their strain gauge technology will meet SRM's, (think IBM), and their pricing will compete with Power Tap,(think Dell). If they can pull it off EXCELLENT...if not they are another Gateway.

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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg180 View Post
    I always love competition in the market place. We shall see if their strain gauge technology will meet SRM's, (think IBM), and their pricing will compete with Power Tap,(think Dell). If they can pull it off EXCELLENT...if not they are another Gateway.
    Apple?

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    Realist Greg180's Avatar
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    Apple=Ergo. Designed for the liberal left

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    I think it is just a matter of time befor Shimano/Campy/SRAM need some new products to sell and incorporate some strain gauges in their top of the line BBs. They could have very seamless integration with their computers and probably have the engineering/manufacturing prowess to be better than the current products. Wonder why they haven't done this yet?

  7. #7
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jemoryl View Post
    Wonder why they haven't done this yet?
    Probably because you're oversimplifying the integration process. There's a reason why ERGOMO PMs don't use outboard bearings.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Acquiring new target.... carlfreddy's Avatar
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    Operating System:

    Linux
    That's enough to make me not intersted in it.
    There are only 10 types of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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    wavylines
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg180 View Post
    We shall see if their strain gauge technology will meet SRM's.
    I hope they beat, not meet the SRM. As an implementation of straingauges, the SRM is average at best. From the Australian Institute of Sport's tests:

    Accuracy of SRM and power tap power monitoring systems for bicycling.
    Gardner AS, Stephens S, Martin DT, Lawton E, Lee H, Jenkins D.

    Department of Physiology, Australian Institute of Sport, Australia.

    PURPOSE:: Although manufacturers of bicycle power monitoring devices SRM and Power Tap (PT) claim accuracy to within 2.5%, there are limited scientific data available in support. The purpose of this investigation was to assess the accuracy of SRM and PT under different conditions. METHODS:: First, 19 SRM were calibrated, raced for 11 months, and retested using a dynamic CALRIG (50-1000 W at 100 rpm). Second, using the same procedure, five PT were repeat tested on alternate days. Third, the most accurate SRM and PT were tested for the influence of cadence (60, 80, 100, 120 rpm), temperature (8 and 21 degrees C) and time (1 h at ~300 W) on accuracy. Finally, the same SRM and PT were downloaded and compared after random cadence and gear surges using the CALRIG and on a training ride. RESULTS:: The mean error scores for SRM and PT factory calibration over a range of 50 - 1000 W were 2.3 +/- 4.9% and -2.5 +/- 0.5%, respectively. A second set of trials provided stable results for 15 calibrated SRM after 11 months (-0.8 +/- 1.7%), and follow-up testing of all PT units confirmed these findings (-2.7 +/- 0.1%). Accuracy for SRM and PT was not largely influenced by time and cadence; however, power output readings were noticeably influenced by temperature (5.2% for SRM and 8.4% for PT). During field trials, SRM average and max power were 4.8% and 7.3% lower, respectively, compared with PT. CONCLUSIONS:: When operated according to manufacturers instructions, both SRM and PT offer the coach, athlete, and sport scientist the ability to accurately monitor power output in the lab and the field. Calibration procedures matching performance tests (duration, power, cadence, and temperature) are, however, advised as the error associated with each unit may vary.
    The PT's strain guages are better designed, which is why it's variance was only +/-0.5% and +/-0.1%.

  10. #10
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlfreddy View Post
    That's enough to make me not intersted in it.
    Why?
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

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    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    I don't care if they beat the SRM or not. That study, however, I would argue with. The results are well within the SRM's claimed tolerance. The SRM also shows less of a variation with temperature.

    Of course, that all ignores the fact they only tested one unit. To get a general comparison of two strain gauge devices, i'd rather see several units (at the minimum) of each tested.

    ...then again, if your PT drops your HR, is their a comparison?

    Quote Originally Posted by curveship View Post
    As an implementation of straingauges, the SRM is average at best.
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    I like pie! BCgoFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
    Why?
    He likes Microsoft stuff?
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    wavylines
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    Quote Originally Posted by UT_Dude View Post
    That study, however, I would argue with. The results are well within the SRM's claimed tolerance.
    Right, they set out to independently confirm those accuracy claims, which they did. I don't see how that's arguing with the study?
    Quote Originally Posted by UT_Dude View Post
    Of course, that all ignores the fact they only tested one unit.
    Read it again. They tested 19 SRMs and 5 PTs.

    (19 SRMs! Can you imagine? That's like $50K of bike schwag!)

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    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg180 View Post
    Apple=Ergo. Designed for the liberal left
    hmm.. kinda off.. I'm definately far from liberal and love my apple products dearly.
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    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
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    The code for their power meter system is open source! That's really cool because it offers two opportunities:

    1. People might be able to help tweak the algorithms and make it even more accurate, or just fix bugs
    2. People can make up cool apps to go with it or even make the screen show other cool stuff.

    I hope this thing is accurate, reliable and affordable 'cause it could be really neat!

    http://quarq.us/index.php?option=com...d=13&Itemid=29


    AND:

    IT HAS GPS!!

    The Qranium. The head unit. The brain box. The physical encapsulation of knowledge. The Quarq Qranium is hands down the most powerful, most advanced bicycle computer ever made. It is fully loaded with GPS, a large graphical display, 512 Mb of memory and a Linux operating system. Perhaps most important: the application software will be released as open-source, maximizing flexibility.
    Think of all the apps you can write to work with power and GPS! How many watts it takes you to climb # of feet per minute, adjusted by gradient. Or whatever. Wow, this thing could be cool.

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    I like pie! BCgoFHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donrhummy View Post
    The code for their power meter system is open source! That's really cool because it offers two opportunities:

    1. People might be able to help tweak the algorithms and make it even more accurate, or just fix bugs
    2. People can make up cool apps to go with it or even make the screen show other cool stuff.

    I hope this thing is accurate, reliable and affordable 'cause it could be really neat!

    http://quarq.us/index.php?option=com...d=13&Itemid=29


    AND:

    IT HAS GPS!!
    Bold, Cheesy, Graceful, Overwhelming, Funny, Hardworking, Sophisticated
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    I just hope they MAKE IT WATERPROOF. I would trade out all of my Powertap **** for that alone.
    Kendall Frederick

    Orange Park, FL

  18. #18
    base training heretic Squint's Avatar
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    Rumor is that it will be priced around the same as the Dura Ace SRM.

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    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squint View Post
    Rumor is that it will be priced around the same as the Dura Ace SRM.
    Meh, I'll stick with my SRM then. That thing is fuuuugly.
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    wavylines
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squint View Post
    Rumor is that it will be priced around the same as the Dura Ace SRM.
    Where'd you hear that? I haven't seen anything and have been curious.

    EDIT: Nevermind, just found it on weightweenies.
    Last edited by curveship; 08-16-07 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    Probably because you're oversimplifying the integration process. There's a reason why ERGOMO PMs don't use outboard bearings.
    Ergomo was probably in development before outboard bearings became commonplace and it would be difficult for a small company (like the ones that make current power meters) to suddenly develop new versions. From the design of the Campy UT cranks it looks like a power meter implementation would even be easier (e.g. stick a little cylindrical battery right in the center of the crank axle to power the sender...).

  22. #22
    base training heretic Squint's Avatar
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    I suspect Ergomo wasn't designed from the ground up like SRM, PT, etc. It appears similar to optical torque transducers for industrial use. The developer of Ergomo probably thought he could save on R&D and have a better margin borrowing a torque transducer from other applications. I have to wonder how far along he was in adapting it for cyclig use before he realized it wouldn't measure the right leg.

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    You'd hope they knew that they'd be getting limited data from the first sketch in a notebook. The guys at Ergomo that is.
    Last edited by tfro; 08-16-07 at 07:06 PM.

  24. #24
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Promising, but not interested in SRM kinds of pricing at this point.

    Anyone hear anything new about the Minoura footbed solution?

  25. #25
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
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    It doesn't actually measure torque (just acceleration, right?), which automatically lumps it in with iBike and the Polar, from my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Promising, but not interested in SRM kinds of pricing at this point.

    Anyone hear anything new about the Minoura footbed solution?
    T E X A S F I G H T !
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