Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-17-07, 10:54 AM   #1
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Predictor-Lotto considers Leipheimer

How is Levi going to help Evans? He'd have to pull and/or attack in the mountains and we all know he is unlikely to do either one.

Quote:
Belgium-based squad Predictor-Lotto is interested in having the signature of American Levi Leipheimer, third in the recent edition of the Tour de France. The 33 year-old is looking for a new team after it was announced that current team Discovery Channel will be folding its operations at the end of 2007.

Predictor-Lotto Team Manager José De Cauwer confirmed in an interview with La Dernière Heure that the team is motivated in having a strong general classification rider to help Australian Cadel Evans, second in the Tour. "We would like to have a second man at the side of Evans who has the capacity to ride for the classification in Grand Tours, and Leipheimer would be an ideal man," noted the Belgian.

"The negotiations are open but I believe there are good possibilities that we can find an agreement."

Leipheimer spent three years with Rabobank and two with Gerolsteiner before signing with Discovery for 2007 and later being designated as a reinforcement to Ivan Basso. Discovery and Basso parted ways when the Italian was linked with Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes and this opened the door for Leipheimer to push for the podium in the Tour while helping younger teammate Alberto Contador vie for the eventual win.
Dubbayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 10:55 AM   #2
Ih8lucky13
The Truth
 
Ih8lucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Bikes: Felt f4c, Felt RXC, Guerciotti Khaybar,Guerciotti EM-2, Cervelo P-3.
Posts: 2,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lotto is going to be waving bye-bye to Horner .
Ih8lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 11:03 AM   #3
acape
Senior Member
 
acape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8lucky13 View Post
Lotto is going to be waving bye-bye to Horner .
I don't know, Horner's about as good a domestique as you could ask for.
acape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 11:04 AM   #4
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acape View Post
I don't know, Horner's about as good a domestique as you could ask for.
Read his interview. They don't want to pay him market rate. Look for him to wind up at Slipstream.
Dubbayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 11:11 AM   #5
acape
Senior Member
 
acape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
Read his interview. They don't want to pay him market rate. Look for him to wind up at Slipstream.
Ah, I hadn't seen that until just now, thanks. Don't know why Lotto wouldn't pony up the cash after his performance this year.
acape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 11:24 AM   #6
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,629
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acape View Post
Ah, I hadn't seen that until just now, thanks. Don't know why Lotto wouldn't pony up the cash after his performance this year.
Because Levi's much better than Horner with the fans and media?...

Cadel's finally shown that he's willing to attack a little so they are desperate for a wheelsucker?

They've got Levi's "accelerations aren't my thing" covered with Robbie?
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 12:15 PM   #7
donrhummy
Senior Member
 
donrhummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think PL is underestimating how good of a domestique Horner was. Don't know if they don't like his very "frank" comments or if they simply don't value domestiques very highly but he's being undervalued. You know Horner and others can criticize Lance (as he does in his recent interview) for disbanding the team but one thing Lance did was take care of his domestiques financially. Better than anyone else in pro cycling. Landis made $240,000 in his last year with Lance and also got a huge bonus (out of Lance's pocket not the team's) after ever TDF win. Lance may have been selfish when it came to stage and race victories but he paid his teammates what they deserved. And his first year with Lance, his bonus from Lance (again, from Lance's personal bank account) was bigger than his salary.
donrhummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 12:50 PM   #8
GV27
Light Makes Right
 
GV27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Green Mountain, Colorado
Bikes: Gianni Motta Criterium, Dean Hardtail
Posts: 1,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's true about Lance. He broke up his entire prize check from the Tour amongst his teammates, reasoning that all his sponsorship money was thanks to them.

Can't see why Levi would do that unless he can't find another job. Why would he want to sign up to be a domestique for a guy he just finished 8 seconds back on in the Tour? Unless they put him on a Giro/Vuelta program as team leader. Can't see that with the Tour-centric mentality of American fans.......

Last edited by GV27; 08-17-07 at 01:15 PM.
GV27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:17 PM   #9
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
That's true about Lance. He broke up his entire prize check from the Tour amongst his teammates, reasoning that all his sponsorship money was thanks to them.
Nice story, only the truth is prize money goes to the team, not the rider.
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:22 PM   #10
Ih8lucky13
The Truth
 
Ih8lucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Bikes: Felt f4c, Felt RXC, Guerciotti Khaybar,Guerciotti EM-2, Cervelo P-3.
Posts: 2,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Nice story, only the truth is prize money goes to the team, not the rider.
You need to read "Lance Armstrongs War" Lance got a huge bonus in his contract for winning the Tour seperate from the actual Tour prize money.
So he in effect would pay from his own pocket to the domestiques when he won.
Ih8lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:23 PM   #11
djbowen1
Senior Member
 
djbowen1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NY
Bikes: Cervelo Soliost
Posts: 2,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Nice story, only the truth is prize money goes to the team, not the rider.
He would take "HIS" prize money and give it away.
djbowen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:25 PM   #12
CyLowe97
Up on the Down Side
 
CyLowe97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago(ish)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8lucky13 View Post
Lotto is going to be waving bye-bye to Horner .
Horner did mention in one of his daily Tour diaries on velonews that there was a gap between him and the team when it came to salary negotiations, so this may well prove true.

Horner was a big part of Cadel making the podium, as well as Cadel's roommate on the road.

If chemistry means anything, then they should pony up to keep Horner.
CyLowe97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:29 PM   #13
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8lucky13 View Post
You need to read "Lance Armstrongs War" ...
You need to read the post I replied to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GV27
He broke up his entire prize check from the Tour ...
(by the way, all Tour winners in the modern era, have left their share of the prize money for their team.)
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:34 PM   #14
donrhummy
Senior Member
 
donrhummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If he helped Cadel so much (as I think he did) why isn't Cadel fighting for him to get a good salary?
donrhummy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:40 PM   #15
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donrhummy View Post
If he helped Cadel so much (as I think he did) why isn't Cadel fighting for him to get a good salary?
and *THAT*, friends, is the $64,000 question. If Cadel had any brains at all he'd tell P-L to take some of HIS salary and give it to Horner.
Dubbayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-07, 01:44 PM   #16
Ih8lucky13
The Truth
 
Ih8lucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Bikes: Felt f4c, Felt RXC, Guerciotti Khaybar,Guerciotti EM-2, Cervelo P-3.
Posts: 2,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do they pay more for Cadel or for Robbie Mcewen?
Ih8lucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-07, 02:14 AM   #17
elgalad
Carbon Fiber Bones
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donrhummy View Post
If he helped Cadel so much (as I think he did) why isn't Cadel fighting for him to get a good salary?
As Horner himself has said, he is coming to the end of his career. Perhaps Cadel and P-L are more interested in replacing him with a newer model Domestique 2.0?

In all seriousness, whilst Horner does deserve to be earning every bit as much as the domestiques on Discovery, Rabobank, etc. the focus of P-L has always been more on the green jersey with McEwen. Perhaps they view this year's TdF result as a fluke and are more interested in spending money on supporting McEwen, where they can use cheaper domestiques, as they're really only needed on flat stage?

If I were Cadel, I might be looking for a position as leader of a team with a little more support (ie. more than 1 domestique that can hang on the climbs).
elgalad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-07, 04:03 AM   #18
classic1
Senior Member
 
classic1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8lucky13 View Post
Do they pay more for Cadel or for Robbie Mcewen?
Probably McEwen, though that might change. Both are rumoured to be on seven-figure pa contracts, though Lotto picked them both up for peanuts when they first joined the team.

IMO they should pay Horner more cash, but its a hard nosed business. Problem for Horner is that there are 20 Chris Horners out there and teams are folding.
classic1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-07, 07:09 AM   #19
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
Posts: 9,673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgalad View Post
As Horner himself has said, he is coming to the end of his career. Perhaps Cadel and P-L are more interested in replacing him with a newer model Domestique 2.0?

In all seriousness, whilst Horner does deserve to be earning every bit as much as the domestiques on Discovery, Rabobank, etc. the focus of P-L has always been more on the green jersey with McEwen. Perhaps they view this year's TdF result as a fluke and are more interested in spending money on supporting McEwen
McEwen is going to be 36 next year if I recall correctly. He didn't make it this year. Maybe next year he will... but he's definitely not someone you want to build your team around, in my opinion - unless you ONLY care about next year.
__________________
Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-07, 07:16 AM   #20
CyLowe97
Up on the Down Side
 
CyLowe97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago(ish)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
But in this pro tour environment with skitish sponsors, there is only next year to care about at this point.

Plus, just think how many Predictor kits Robbie hands out to the podium girls throughout the year as compared to Cadel. It's all about market saturation.
CyLowe97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-07, 03:27 AM   #21
gm1230126
barnfullagts
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: WI
Bikes: GT BI Ti/BI Steel - Edge Ti and Steel Xizang Ti and Psyclone Steel
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgalad View Post
As Horner himself has said, he is coming to the end of his career. Perhaps Cadel and P-L are more interested in replacing him with a newer model Domestique 2.0?

In all seriousness, whilst Horner does deserve to be earning every bit as much as the domestiques on Discovery, Rabobank, etc. the focus of P-L has always been more on the green jersey with McEwen. Perhaps they view this year's TdF result as a fluke and are more interested in spending money on supporting McEwen, where they can use cheaper domestiques, as they're really only needed on flat stage?

If I were Cadel, I might be looking for a position as leader of a team with a little more support (ie. more than 1 domestique that can hang on the climbs).
If Horner is coming close to the end of his career, Levi can't be far behind. They're only a year apart in age. Levi 33, Horner 34.
gm1230126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-07, 04:32 AM   #22
elgalad
Carbon Fiber Bones
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gm1230126 View Post
If Horner is coming close to the end of his career, Levi can't be far behind. They're only a year apart in age. Levi 33, Horner 34.
Agreed, but I was commenting more on their hesitancy to increase Horner's pay than their choice to hire Leipheimer. Although I agree, given the similar ages, it doesn't really make sense.

Perhaps they figure that by signing a 'big' name like Levi, they can pull some more sponsorship $$$s?
elgalad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-07, 04:46 AM   #23
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
(by the way, all Tour winners in the modern era, have left their share of the prize money for their team.)
Correct. And it's only about $450,000, which in this day is chickenfeed compared to other sports.

The reason they break up the winning money is that the winner will make his money elsewhere, simply put. And while there are bonus clauses in the contracts of the riders that make the Tour team tied to different things (jersey winners, overall team placing, stage wins, stuff like that) the riders don't get much else (team winnings split up depending on how many guys finish the whole race and then smaller shares for guys that don't make it to Paris is typical).

Back on topic...at another forum I frequent far too much (racers hang out there, guys like Saul Raisin and Floyd are members) there was a discussion about Lotto and its propensity to lowball riders on new contracts. Its been a theme there for a while, and Horner most likely won't be back, at least at this point.

Signing Levi, you go after the best available athlete and figure it out later. Levi is a better rider than Horner.

BTW...if you think managing and running a team could be fun and not too tough, you might give this a go.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-19-07 at 04:56 AM.
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-07, 11:26 AM   #24
roadgator
raodmaster shaman
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: G-ville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donrhummy View Post
Lance may have been selfish when it came to stage and race victories but he paid his teammates what they deserved.

Hush money. It aint cheap to keep all those team mates loyal and quiet.
roadgator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-07, 04:05 PM   #25
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: Pedal Force QS3
Posts: 7,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
Correct. And it's only about $450,000, which in this day is chickenfeed
Actually it's $450,000 Euro...over $600K US.

It's a dumb move by P-L. For what Levi will cost them they could double Horner's salary AND still bring in 1-2 other guys.
Dubbayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:38 PM.