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  1. #1
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    Danielson to Slipstream

    Front page of the Denver Post Sports page.
    It quotes Vaughters saying something to the effect of:
    He may not be able to recover day to day in a tour like Lance, but that won't matter in one day races. He can definitely win a stage of the tour.

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    Here's the link for quick reading access.

    I like the way Vaughters is pretty much commiting his team to a full run of the majors next year. Go Slipstream.
    It's not how many miles you ride, but how hard you ride them. Time trials aren't races.

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    Danielson. I'm whelmed.
    -r

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    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Sometimes, whether it's employees or athletes, a different situation can make all the difference in the world. Like Yogi said, it's 90% mental and the other half is physical.

    The guy's got talent. He did win a stage race.

    Personally, I'll defer to the experts when it comes to talent evaluation. Obviously, Vaughters thinks he's good enough.

    For me, that's good enough.
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-25-07 at 03:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    Sometimes, whether it's employees or athletes, a different situation can make all the difference in the world. Like Yogi said, it's 90% mental and the other half is physical.

    They guy's got talent. He did win a stage race.

    Personally, I'll defer to the experts when it comes to talent evaluation. Obviously, Vaughters thinks he's good enough.

    For me, that's good enough.
    I agree, from what I hear he's got to get the mental part down. Maybe with a new team and less pressure to be the one to fill Lance's shoes, he might ride better. My brother in law roomed with him at camp and at a few races this year. He said that he had to tell Danielson more than once to ride like the guy that kicked everyone's butts in training everyday in Girona. He said that Danielson wears himself out by putting a ton of pressure on himself to live up to everyone's expectations.

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    Senior Member Stallionforce's Avatar
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    Vaughters obviously knew of Disco's collapse before it hit the press. He's making the right moves and putting together 'the next' American team. He just needs a legit Tour hopeful for Americans to take serious interest. Danielson is a good signing -- seems to be mellowing with age and experience.

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    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
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    Another signing of a guy who can't finish it off...

    Look at Slipstream's/TIAA's results over the last couple of years. They haven't won anything big and rarely put a guy in the top five of even medium sized races. And don't say I'm full of sh*t, do a search for the results.

    Now they want to race the Grand Tours? Where's the GC guy?
    And good luck competing with the big US Pro teams with guys like they have signed. The team Vaughters has constructed would get killed in a big money crit. I have it on good authority (DS of a BIG US based pro squad) that most of the teams around aren't now, nor have they ever been, fearful of Slipstream.

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.

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    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    Another signing of a guy who can't finish it off...

    Look at Slipstream's/TIAA's results over the last couple of years. They haven't won anything big and rarely put a guy in the top five of even medium sized races. And don't say I'm full of sh*t, do a search for the results.

    Now they want to race the Grand Tours? Where's the GC guy?
    And good luck competing with the big US Pro teams with guys like they have signed. The team Vaughters has constructed would get killed in a big money crit. I have it on good authority (DS of a BIG US based pro squad) that most of the teams around aren't now, nor have they ever been, fearful of Slipstream.

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.
    1. Why do you need a GC guy to race a Grand Tour? There are 21-22 teams every year and < 5 have a shot at the podium.
    2. 7-Eleven won three stages in their first Tour and held the yellow jersey without a snowball's chance of winning the GC.
    3. Until last year their roster was primarily U25/trackies so it's no wonder they didn't win much.
    4. I don't think Vaughters gives two sh*ts about crit results no matter how much money is on the table.
    5. Most sponsors, large and small, do it for the ego stroke. The company may seek publicity but behind it all there's a cycling fanatic executive who's doing it for the ego stroke.

  9. #9
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    Another signing of a guy who can't finish it off...

    Look at Slipstream's/TIAA's results over the last couple of years. They haven't won anything big and rarely put a guy in the top five of even medium sized races. And don't say I'm full of sh*t, do a search for the results.

    Now they want to race the Grand Tours? Where's the GC guy?
    And good luck competing with the big US Pro teams with guys like they have signed. The team Vaughters has constructed would get killed in a big money crit. I have it on good authority (DS of a BIG US based pro squad) that most of the teams around aren't now, nor have they ever been, fearful of Slipstream.

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.


    I didn't realize that these were not actual companies. Thanks for pointing that out.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
    1. Why do you need a GC guy to race a Grand Tour? There are 21-22 teams every year and < 5 have a shot at the podium.
    2. 7-Eleven won three stages in their first Tour and held the yellow jersey without a snowball's chance of winning the GC.
    3. Until last year their roster was primarily U25/trackies so it's no wonder they didn't win much.
    4. I don't think Vaughters gives two sh*ts about crit results no matter how much money is on the table.
    5. Most sponsors, large and small, do it for the ego stroke. The company may seek publicity but behind it all there's a cycling fanatic executive who's doing it for the ego stroke.
    1. He leaned over a fence and had a 30 second conversation with someone he thought was "the DS" because he had a logo'd golf shirt on.

    2. Your #3 is correct.

    3. If there's no GC guy, let's get rid of Quick Step and Milram. Who is the GC guy on those teams? Boonen and Zabel???
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    Another signing of a guy who can't finish it off...

    Look at Slipstream's/TIAA's results over the last couple of years. They haven't won anything big and rarely put a guy in the top five of even medium sized races. And don't say I'm full of sh*t, do a search for the results.

    Now they want to race the Grand Tours? Where's the GC guy?
    And good luck competing with the big US Pro teams with guys like they have signed. The team Vaughters has constructed would get killed in a big money crit. I have it on good authority (DS of a BIG US based pro squad) that most of the teams around aren't now, nor have they ever been, fearful of Slipstream.

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.

    There is a large, large difference between a US Crit team, like HealthNet, and a team that hopes to one day be ProTour caliber.

    Think about it this way: I completely agree with you with regards to the big US Pro teams, and the fact that they would kill Slipstream. However, Slipstream will UNDOUBTEDLY destroy all of them in a stage race like the Tour of California, Tour de Georgia, etc. They have completely different goals.

    Just like your neighborhood crit vs. the local RR: often times it's a completely different body type that wins. Big bad sprinter/roleur vs. climber. Two different animals.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  12. #12
    The Truth Ih8lucky13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.
    Chipotle is a pretty decent sized publicly traded company, with annual sales close to a billion dollars.

    I think they probably fall under just as much pressure now as if they would have a major sponser.

  13. #13
    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
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    [quote=roadwarrior;5144375]1. He leaned over a fence and had a 30 second conversation with someone he thought was "the DS" because he had a logo'd golf shirt on.

    QUOTE]

    Yeah, your right, the HN logo threw me off...

    I guess Corbett really doesn't know what he's talking about and you guys do...

    If you'd like, I can PM you his private, home number and you can ask him yourself.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=damocles1;5144717]
    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    1. He leaned over a fence and had a 30 second conversation with someone he thought was "the DS" because he had a logo'd golf shirt on.

    QUOTE]

    Yeah, your right, the HN logo threw me off...

    I guess Corbett really doesn't know what he's talking about and you guys do...

    If you'd like, I can PM you his private, home number and you can ask him yourself.
    I've known Corbett for years. I'm sure I'll see him at Interbike. PM me your first name so I can let him know that you're putting stuff on the internet that he's been telling you. If he wanted it on the internet, I'm sure he'd put it there himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallionforce View Post
    Vaughters obviously knew of Disco's collapse before it hit the press. He's making the right moves and putting together 'the next' American team. He just needs a legit Tour hopeful for Americans to take serious interest. Danielson is a good signing -- seems to be mellowing with age and experience.
    Quite a few people knew about it.

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    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=redal;5145322]
    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post

    I've known Corbett for years. I'm sure I'll see him at Interbike. PM me your first name so I can let him know that you're putting stuff on the internet that he's been telling you. If he wanted it on the internet, I'm sure he'd put it there himself.
    Wow, you track him down once a year at Interbike...ooooohhhh. I've known him since college and see him about three days a week, considering he lives 3 blocks away. And he's not going to the Show this year...we talked about it this morning on the ride...
    I plan on stopping by to pick up my new Diadoras tomorrow. I'll say hi for you...

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    [QUOTE=damocles1;5145376]
    Quote Originally Posted by redal View Post

    Wow, you track him down once a year at Interbike...ooooohhhh. I've known him since college and see him about three days a week, considering he lives 3 blocks away. And he's not going to the Show this year...we talked about it this morning on the ride...
    I plan on stopping by to pick up my new Diadoras tomorrow. I'll say hi for you...
    I can pi$$ farther than you can.
    Fellow members. I am riding in The 2014 Ride to Conquer Cancer
    I am starting to raise $2500 to support the wonderful work done at The Princess Margaret Cancer Centre. Please support this great organization.

    Please help me by donating so that I can ride. Please go to my link at www.conquercancer.ca/goto/Brian_Johnson . I would greatly appreciate it.

    Bless You All.

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  18. #18
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    You could easily make the case that Disco would get killed if they came to the states and raced a few crits.

  19. #19
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=damocles1;5145376]
    Quote Originally Posted by redal View Post

    Wow, you track him down once a year at Interbike...ooooohhhh. I've known him since college and see him about three days a week, considering he lives 3 blocks away. And he's not going to the Show this year...we talked about it this morning on the ride...
    I plan on stopping by to pick up my new Diadoras tomorrow. I'll say hi for you...
    First, I have a hard time believing that a DS would say the don't fear a team, and certainly not to a person outside of the racing community. That's basically smack talk and having raced at a high level myself (pro 1-2), these things come back to haunt people. I find it a bit humorous that you've chosen to reveal this, given that a few of those people read this forum. Not many, as most of the racers frequent another forum (due to content and posting quality), but a few. If he did say that, I expect that it was not for publication, especially in this type of forum. My guess is that, if he did say that, you violated his confidences.

    Second, if you knew anything about Vaughter's program, you'd know that he started with a junior development team and has basically worked with this group for several years. In fact, he has several teams and his focus has been on junior development. This was an idea he had after retiring from Credit Agricole and not really being enamoured with the Denver real estate business (one of his sponsors is 5280, the Denver area magazine). So, seeing an opportunity to move up in class, he's trying to take advantage of this in sigining some more talented riders to move to the European peloton on a regular basis. Since Vaughters was an extremely good rider and understands the intricacies of real road racing (not the US roundy round stuff), I expect that his team, with an elevated level of talent will do very well. His Chipotle team is actually quite young, many around 20 to their early 20's, and were developed by his old TIAA/CREF 5280 team. He has a few older guys like Brad Huff and Danny Pate, but many are still learning. I like that.

    Third, I enjoy when a poster makes a lot of blanket statements, then selects which ones where they respond. For example, here is a list of the companies that are not "real", to use your term, that you referenced.

    Last, in my case you won't impress me with free stuff. Since I do a lot of business with Cannondale.

    So I really doubt that Corbett said what you alledge. That's the way recreational racers talk who don't know any better.

    Enjoy...
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-26-07 at 08:54 AM.
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    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
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    More proof that you know OF Jeff and don't actually KNOW him. He's never been one to mince words and speaks his mind pretty freely.

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    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    More proof that you know OF Jeff and don't actually KNOW him. He's never been one to mince words and speaks his mind pretty freely.
    Well, I am certain that he'll enjoy watching Slipstream racing in Europe on Versus next season. He, at least won't have to worry much about Vaughter's good team. Maybe his domestic team.

    Again, you miss the point. If he actually said this, he would have been making a private comment he probably didn't expect someone to publish on the internet.

    There's a difference between a team trying to train young riders for bigger things, and signing 30 year old's who are going nowhere, but are really good at the shorter, easier US races. Been there, done that. Horner'd wax all these guys azzes and look how long it took him to get where he is.

    Ask the domestic pro riders how much they enjoyed the Tour of California.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

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    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    Another signing of a guy who can't finish it off...

    Look at Slipstream's/TIAA's results over the last couple of years. They haven't won anything big and rarely put a guy in the top five of even medium sized races. And don't say I'm full of sh*t, do a search for the results.

    Now they want to race the Grand Tours? Where's the GC guy?
    And good luck competing with the big US Pro teams with guys like they have signed. The team Vaughters has constructed would get killed in a big money crit. I have it on good authority (DS of a BIG US based pro squad) that most of the teams around aren't now, nor have they ever been, fearful of Slipstream.

    The day will come when Vaughters gets an actual company to sponsor him and they will demand results. The rich guys who are bakrolling him now are doing it for an ego stroke and nothing more.
    maybe they sign should contador? he's been cleared of doping charges and AFAIK he's looking for a job .

    ed rader

  23. #23
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    There's a difference between a team trying to train young riders for bigger things, and signing 30 year old's who are going nowhere, but are really good at the shorter, easier US races. Been there, done that. Horner'd wax all these guys azzes and look how long it took him to get where he is.
    Ask the domestic pro riders how much they enjoyed the Tour of California.
    Quoted for emphasis. Horner looked like he was out for a training ride at Elk Grove. The one time he stood up in front of me, with around 5 laps to go, HealthNet, T-U, Slipstream and everyone else almost **** their pants.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

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    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
    Quoted for emphasis. Horner looked like he was out for a training ride at Elk Grove. The one time he stood up in front of me, with around 5 laps to go, HealthNet, T-U, Slipstream and everyone else almost **** their pants.
    Did they try to get autographs???

    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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    Slipstream WooooHooooo

    I am really excited about the team...I hope to see them at the Tour of Missouri. Anyone ate at a Chipotle resturant? We are getting one soon..

    I am also looking forward to seeing Kodak Gallery race.

    I hope they both do well...

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