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Old 07-31-03, 07:22 PM   #1
khuon
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Lance doesn't think Ullrich was trying to wait

I just saw on OLN Lance saying that based on nthe replay footage, he didn't think Jan was waiting for him after the crash on stage 15 until Hamilton held back the pack. Interesting...
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Old 07-31-03, 08:10 PM   #2
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I just saw that myself...

I watched it 4 times the day of the race and I wondered why Tyler was 3rd or 4th and then went to the front to give the "slow down" sign if Jan was waiting...

Jan didn't attack, but Lance rode with him for over a 1000 miles so he probably knows the deal. And Lance isn't one to take "pot shots".

It was a good interview...
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Old 07-31-03, 08:26 PM   #3
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I saw that too. These guys seem to speak their mind.
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Old 07-31-03, 08:29 PM   #4
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I saw it as Ullrich wasn't pushing it but he wasn't waiting either until Tyler came up to inform the group to slow. I think Lance has a point that Ullrich wasn't waiting but Ullrich didn't attack on the situation so I guess you can call that waiting.
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Old 07-31-03, 08:31 PM   #5
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I saw the same thing, but I didn't want to say anything, cause I thought I was crazy!

It looked like Jan was continuing on, but kept looking back... and it wasn't until Hamilton rolled up and started giving the slow down signal and yelling that everyone slowed down. By that time, it looked like Lance was back and headed back to catch up with the lead group. I don't think Jan attacked, but it didn't look like he was holding back either until Tyler came up on the group.

I knew I wasn't crazy.
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Old 07-31-03, 08:50 PM   #6
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I was interested to hear him say that when he fell, he thought the tour was over (which is what I was worried of at first... i thought he would have had a damaged bike... and I figured the team car was way behind.
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Old 07-31-03, 09:32 PM   #7
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I beleive the proper etiquette is not to attack when someone is down but not necessarily that you have to stop or wait. I do not think anyone jumped out of the saddle and tried to sprint away and create a gap when Lance fell.
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Old 07-31-03, 09:41 PM   #8
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Yeah, I feel you Sam, but the news reports were saying that Jan waited. The emphasis should have been that he didn't attack, not that he waited....

I do think they were still going at a pretty good speed until Hamilton rode up, because after he gave the slow down signal, you could see the group noticeably slowing....

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Old 07-31-03, 09:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by brent_dube
. i thought he would have had a damaged bike... and I figured the team car was way behind.
It has been reported that Lance did have a damaged bike and that's why he had the second "stumble" where he nearly split himself in half on the top tube after recovering from the first crash.

Purportedly, when Mayo hit Lance's Trek he ran into and cracked the left rear chainstay. This was causing his chain line to move around as the stay continued to flex. His cleats popped out of the pedals as a result of the chain jumping from the higher end of the cogset to the smallest cog in a single, sudden movement. So, for the rest of the attack, he was nursing the bike along.

It was noted, if Lance didn't ride with such a high cadence -- or if he was forced to sprint or descend on the way to the finish of the stage-- it would have been unlikely that he could have continued to ride the damaged Trek.
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Old 07-31-03, 09:45 PM   #10
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Right after Lance got his bearings (after the second stumble), they showed a close up of his wheel. Seriously, it looked damaged. I was worried there when I saw the condition of the wheel alone...
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Old 07-31-03, 10:18 PM   #11
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Lance & Ulrich

On the OLN retrospective tonight, Lance said that after he caught that spectator's bag in the Pyrenees and crashed he didn't think Ulrich slowed down until Hamilton caught up with the group and told them to slow. lance thought Jan just kept going... He said looking at the tapes showed it. he wasn't bitter, just typical straightforwad Armstrong
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Old 07-31-03, 10:30 PM   #12
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Up here in Canada, after Sunday, that's it for cycling. No more TDF '03 re-caps or other cycling coverage til maybe the World's in Hamilton in Oct and/or July '04. Nothing but Caribbean Workout and BowFlex right now. We're dying up here for cycling coverage on TV. Anybody else here in Canada concur? What does one do for getting any cycling coverage on TV in Canada?
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Old 07-31-03, 11:27 PM   #13
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It looked to me like Jan sat up and slowed up. Hamilton did sprint to the front of the group and gestured for everyone to slow down. I think that the whole group slowed, they just didn't want to totally stop.
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Old 07-31-03, 11:31 PM   #14
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I missed the show, BUT I SAID IT FROM THE TIME OF THE FALL! Ulrich DID NOT WAIT. In fact, look at your tapes, HE WAS DROPPING EVERYONE! He slowed when Hamilton got there, and it didn't help him much when he turned and Armstrong was riding up his *ss anyway.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this.
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Old 08-01-03, 02:11 AM   #15
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not seriously...
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Old 08-01-03, 03:00 AM   #16
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Do I recall that when the incident happened that Lance said something to the effect that Jan was returning a favor so to speak when LA waited for him a few years back? I guess review of the tape resulted in a change of view.
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Old 08-01-03, 03:28 AM   #17
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I said that in a post when it actually happened and I was booed off the stage. Thanks Lance for saying it too.
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Old 08-01-03, 03:44 AM   #18
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Well, I disagree w/Lance. Jan slowed enough that Mayo sure didn't have any trouble re-catching him, no? And Tyler didn't appear to have any trouble getting up there to slow Jan and the E-E riders down more.

FWIW, I suspect Mayo and Zubeldia would have hammered to the finish if it weren't for Tyler. Under those circumstances, it would be hard (and take lots of confidence) to wait. Just my take.
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Old 08-01-03, 04:19 AM   #19
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Well, I disagree w/Lance[/i]
And I agree with roadbuzz.

Armstrong surely is a great cyclist and an admirable personality--so don’t get me wrong, please--but his attitude/social stance/knowledge of riding tradition and etiquette sometimes lag behind.

Ullrich WAS WAITING. You can re-wind the tape as much as you want to. He did slow down and looked behind several times to find out whether Armstrong and Mayo were coming back. He didn’t attack (we will never know whether he actually had the legs to do so--later on he surely wasn’t capable of countering Armstrong’s demarrage). He did lose his rhythm.

Just as Ullrich didn’t want to seize the ‘opportunity’ and accept fate’s present, Armstrong apparently cannot accept that a small part of his Victory was not in his own hands, but in those of his opponents.

Tyler Hamilton--another Giant, make no mistake about it--was over-acting a bit, IMHO. His sheriff pose looked nice, but came a bit late: Ullrich et al. were already ‘taking orders’. Not that Hamilton was faking. I think his concern with his friend and former teammate was genuine (just as the tap on Armstrong’s back after his crazy cyclocross adventure pursuant to Beloki’s fall).

Peace.

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Old 08-01-03, 04:25 AM   #20
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this is just what I saw and said.
Full Acc.
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Old 08-01-03, 04:36 AM   #21
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If Lance actually siad what you're saying he said then I think he's just lot a whole bunch of brownie points in my book.
Riders who take the long way round corners usually aren't attacking or trying to open gap.
That climb is pretty steep so I doubt anyone would want to stop for a coffee while Lance caught up.
They slowed sufficiently for him to catch the group at his normal pace.
Ettiquette dictates that no-one attack the yellow jersey. And No-one attacked.

10/10 to Ullrich for his sportsmanship and conduct throughout the tour.
Next yr Jan, it's yours. I have decided
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Old 08-01-03, 05:58 AM   #22
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If Lance actually siad what you're saying he said then I think he's just lot a whole bunch of brownie points in my book.
Riders who take the long way round corners usually aren't attacking or trying to open gap.
That climb is pretty steep so I doubt anyone would want to stop for a coffee while Lance caught up.
They slowed sufficiently for him to catch the group at his normal pace.
Ettiquette dictates that no-one attack the yellow jersey. And No-one attacked.

10/10 to Ullrich for his sportsmanship and conduct throughout the tour.
Next yr Jan, it's yours. I have decided
Well put Tim! That's exactly how I saw it. if Ullrich had wanted to attack, why take the wide route?

Blind patriotism is all very well, but it does interfere with your vision doesn't it?

LA has just gone down in my estimation.
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Old 08-01-03, 06:15 AM   #23
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Lance is not helping himself here. Ullrich is sitting up, looking behind and taking wide corners. He's not obligated to get off the bike. Given Ullrich's climbing style if he had actually dismounted he'd never be able to get going again. Lance didn't actually dismount when he waited for Ullrich 2 years ago either. If this continues people will start asking him why he didn't even look back at Beloki after he got across the field.


You sit up and give the crashed rider a chance to rejoin. If he can the race is back on, if he can't (I don't know how long you wait) the race goes on without him.

I like LA but I've never understood his occasional tendency to take shots at his competitors especially when you consider how hot he gets when someone does it to him.
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Old 08-01-03, 06:58 AM   #24
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I like LA but I've never understood his occasional tendency to take shots at his competitors especially when you consider how hot he gets when someone does it to him.
I just wonder if there is some sort of tiff going on between Jan and Lance?

For what it's worth, this is my take on the scene:

At first, Jan did not stop. However, with adrenaline pumping and the tour on the line, his body most probably reacted before his mind could fully comprehend what was happening. After he got his head straight, he did wait. If he didn't wait @ this point, Tyler would never have had the opportunity to get in front of him and signal for all to slow for the yellow jersey.
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Old 08-01-03, 07:53 AM   #25
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Ok - so Ullrich slowed ever so slightly and that was waiting? He was going!!! Watch it again!!!
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