Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

The only thing that really matters about racing.

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

The only thing that really matters about racing.

Old 08-30-07, 07:56 PM
  #51  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by YMCA
Competition is competition, no matter what level you are playing at. You can't tell an amateur they are not allowed to get serious in their effort to win a race between the start and finish line.

It's like a double message to disallow fire, aggression and intensity from sport, yet expect people to try their best.


If you were the CEO of a corporation, you wouldn't tell your VP's to bring it down a notch. Why can't the local athlete play hard at something they wish to do well at?

You can call it self-delusional, but I see it as humans trying to feel good about their actions. There is only one go-around, so either give racing an effort, or go enjoy the century rides and all the brownie/lemonade stops.

btw- I choose to do both, but when a gun fires at a race, you are my prey until the finish, then we can all go out for lemonade
But I AM the CEO of a corporation. A very insignifcant and pathetic corporation, which dovetails perfectly with my cycling abilities. Fortunately I do have a realistic view of my place in the universe.

Crush a few souls for me hamer head. Don't let me shatter your illusions. God knows I need mine.
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-30-07, 10:22 PM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Bullseye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 498

Bikes: Cannondale systemsix, Raleigh Competition '05

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by classic1
'Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing'

John McEnroe
"I break rackets for fun."

-John McEnroe
Bullseye is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 01:24 AM
  #53  
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217

Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 41 Posts
I have a few mantras or credos or things that I repeat to myself during races that I have been doing for a couple of decades. One of them is, "If you don't recognize anyone around you, you're too far back."

A few races ago, I dropped back to eat and I decided to take a quick break as things seemed to be under control up front. I had team mates working so it was a good time to sit in for a few. I looked around me and that credo popped into my head. I looked at these guys, riders I KNOW I have been racing against for at least a few years and I couldn't recognize a single guy. I finished my power glop, pushed my way out and rolled back up into the top 20. "Ah, familiar faces. A couple of team mates, too."

I just don't understand how these guys keep coming out. I really don't. Racing is a tough sport that requires huge sacrifices in your other life. All the times I didn't go play poker with my buddies, all the stuff I didn't eat. The weekends with the family that revolve around my training and usually involve something like my wife and son driving to meet me somewhere I have ridden to (like a hot spring 150km away, over the mountains). Hours and hours and hours in the saddle. Just to do it again the next day, the next week, the next season. If I am going to make that kind of commitment, I want something out of it. Now that I'm older, the something doesn't come as a race win very often anymore, but it comes when I work for my guys and they deliver the goods (and they do!).

Now I don't want to sound like I never get dropped. I sure as heck do. But when I get dropped I am spent. I am so toasted that I wouldn't notice if the Easter bunny rode by me. I can't wait for the second team car to roll up beside me, hand me a few bottles and some more energy glop (I once got a huge ice-cream cone! Thanks guys!) and watch them drive away because then I know I can ease off and suffer in peace to the finish and it doesn't matter what happens anymore. I've done my bit. When I get dropped I get dropped from the action, from the race, not from the 'thanks for coming out and filling up the field and here's your participant badge, never set foot on a podium and probably never will' group.

I can also say I have been in the laughing group more than once. Everyone, and I mean everyone has a bad day. And I've seen good riders in there, too. That is a different thing. The last time I finished a race in a laughing group we really were just that. It ended up with me and a Guy from Merida Europe (a French guy) sprinting to the line in 39/21 making motorcross sounds. It was pretty funny. This was a collection of guys who had cramped, crashed, flatted and had chased but couldn't get back on. Everyone of us had been racing until well, racing happened to us.

The point I'm not exactly sure I'm making is that if you are going to put all the time and energy and more, make all the sacrifices that it takes, don't you owe it to yourself and all those who have been on the other end of those sacrifices to give it all 100 bears? To the end?

If I get to the point where I'm satisfied by just finishing in the group, without having contributed to my teams effort in any way, I will sell all my stuff and find a sport that I can do with the least amount of training needed and perhaps even one where booze many not be a handicap. Bowling maybe. Lawn darts. Billiards. Ballroom dancing.

Just sayin'
Bob Dopolina is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 02:55 AM
  #54  
Carbon Fiber Bones
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 980

Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
I have a few mantras or credos or things that I repeat to myself during races that I have been doing for a couple of decades. One of them is, "If you don't recognize anyone around you, you're too far back."

A few races ago, I dropped back to eat and I decided to take a quick break as things seemed to be under control up front. I had team mates working so it was a good time to sit in for a few. I looked around me and that credo popped into my head. I looked at these guys, riders I KNOW I have been racing against for at least a few years and I couldn't recognize a single guy. I finished my power glop, pushed my way out and rolled back up into the top 20. "Ah, familiar faces. A couple of team mates, too."

I just don't understand how these guys keep coming out. I really don't. Racing is a tough sport that requires huge sacrifices in your other life. All the times I didn't go play poker with my buddies, all the stuff I didn't eat. The weekends with the family that revolve around my training and usually involve something like my wife and son driving to meet me somewhere I have ridden to (like a hot spring 150km away, over the mountains). Hours and hours and hours in the saddle. Just to do it again the next day, the next week, the next season. If I am going to make that kind of commitment, I want something out of it. Now that I'm older, the something doesn't come as a race win very often anymore, but it comes when I work for my guys and they deliver the goods (and they do!).

Now I don't want to sound like I never get dropped. I sure as heck do. But when I get dropped I am spent. I am so toasted that I wouldn't notice if the Easter bunny rode by me. I can't wait for the second team car to roll up beside me, hand me a few bottles and some more energy glop (I once got a huge ice-cream cone! Thanks guys!) and watch them drive away because then I know I can ease off and suffer in peace to the finish and it doesn't matter what happens anymore. I've done my bit. When I get dropped I get dropped from the action, from the race, not from the 'thanks for coming out and filling up the field and here's your participant badge, never set foot on a podium and probably never will' group.

I can also say I have been in the laughing group more than once. Everyone, and I mean everyone has a bad day. And I've seen good riders in there, too. That is a different thing. The last time I finished a race in a laughing group we really were just that. It ended up with me and a Guy from Merida Europe (a French guy) sprinting to the line in 39/21 making motorcross sounds. It was pretty funny. This was a collection of guys who had cramped, crashed, flatted and had chased but couldn't get back on. Everyone of us had been racing until well, racing happened to us.

The point I'm not exactly sure I'm making is that if you are going to put all the time and energy and more, make all the sacrifices that it takes, don't you owe it to yourself and all those who have been on the other end of those sacrifices to give it all 100 bears? To the end?

If I get to the point where I'm satisfied by just finishing in the group, without having contributed to my teams effort in any way, I will sell all my stuff and find a sport that I can do with the least amount of training needed and perhaps even one where booze many not be a handicap. Bowling maybe. Lawn darts. Billiards. Ballroom dancing.

Just sayin'
You arrogant ass.

Did it ever occur to you that some people enjoy racing, rather than just winning. Perhaps those people whom you don't recognize and you have labelled as wasting their time are out there pushing themselves to their limit just to hang on? Maybe for them, hanging with the group is winning.

So you've been racing for a long time, big whoop, here, have a cookie, you've earned it. Those other guys are probably just starting out, and maybe they'll be the ones at the front in a few years. Then again, maybe they won't, but perhaps for them the fun comes from competing, not from having everyone tell them what a great bicycle racer they are because they won some podunk race that nobody and his mother give a crap about, because at the end of the day, enjoying life is what it's all about, win, lose, or draw, if it makes you feel alive, you're winning.

Oh, sorry, just sayin'
elgalad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 03:42 AM
  #55  
部門ニ/自転車オタク
 
NomadVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 3,173

Bikes: 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, 2012 Blue Norcross CX, 2016 Blue Axino SL, 2016 Scott Scale, Fixie, Fetish Cycles Road Bike (on the trainer)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by elgalad
I can absolutely guarantee you that this guy went home more satisfied with his performance than ANYONE else in the race.

Bike racing is not about winning or losing, its about pushing yourself to your absolute limit, and being able to look back and say that you gave it everything you had, even if that was only enough for last place.
Umm.. maybe for you. If I only raced for the race, I'd only ever race. Instead, I race to win. For that reason I line up against myself 6 days per week, 18 hrs per week, week after week.

If you enjoy racing just for the sake of being in the pack and the adrenaline rush that is bike racing, good on you. That's your thing. Some of us have the thing of going out with the intent of smoking the competition. That doesn't mean we didn't have fun racing or that we always actually do smoke the competition, but I haven't started a race this year that I didn't have a reason for being there other than just "being there to have fun." In fact I have a kid in the area that is over half my age that has "smoked" me twice this year. Those races were fun, but winning would have been more fun.

Regarding being more satisfied than all the rest... I'd be surprised if you can guarantee that. Who's to say that guy didn't plan his entire summer training to peak and win that event and because he got sick, or any of the other bazillion reasons you could bonk, his summer training fell short of his goal. Just because he finished, doesn't mean ONLY finishing was his goal.
__________________
Envision, Energize, Enable
NomadVW is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 03:52 AM
  #56  
部門ニ/自転車オタク
 
NomadVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 3,173

Bikes: 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, 2012 Blue Norcross CX, 2016 Blue Axino SL, 2016 Scott Scale, Fixie, Fetish Cycles Road Bike (on the trainer)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NomadVW
Umm.. maybe for you. If I only raced for the race, I'd only ever race. Instead, I race to win. For that reason I line up against myself 6 days per week, 18 hrs per week, week after week.
That, and like many of us I have an completely addicted love for being on the bike, relishing the saddle sores, leg cramps, and never ending hunt for chain-free days like today where you can fly through the mountains with great speed and ease. Cycling was fun before racing, and will be fun after it too.
__________________
Envision, Energize, Enable
NomadVW is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 03:59 AM
  #57  
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217

Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by elgalad
You arrogant ass.

Did it ever occur to you that some people enjoy racing, rather than just winning. Perhaps those people whom you don't recognize and you have labelled as wasting their time are out there pushing themselves to their limit just to hang on? Maybe for them, hanging with the group is winning.

So you've been racing for a long time, big whoop, here, have a cookie, you've earned it. Those other guys are probably just starting out, and maybe they'll be the ones at the front in a few years. Then again, maybe they won't, but perhaps for them the fun comes from competing, not from having everyone tell them what a great bicycle racer they are because they won some podunk race that nobody and his mother give a crap about, because at the end of the day, enjoying life is what it's all about, win, lose, or draw, if it makes you feel alive, you're winning.

Oh, sorry, just sayin'
Maybe I should have added a few qualifiers for some of you. What you're saying may be true for Cat 5,4,3 or Masters riders I don't know anyone who races at an Elite level who is there just to have fun. I guess you missed the part where I talk about all the work it takes ANYONE just to be there and how we all have bad days and good days. I just don't understand what motivates the guys I am describing - the guys who NEVER have good days. That's what I'm trying to talk about.

As for the Pudunk race, we didn't attend because it conflicted with the stage race we wanted to do in Butt****, nowhere.

As for my arrogant ass (and I'm not sure what you're doing looking at my ass anyways) when you have sponsors who invest time and money in you and your team, they have expectations. Those expectations involve things like winning. Showing up and having a good time just doesn't cut it in their eyes no matter how much you love the sport or racing in general. This changes your perspective about racing a little.

Is there anything about what I had to say that you can see? Or understand? If it makes you feel any better those younger guys are already at the front (I guess you missed that point, too) and have been for some time. I work for them now. I'm at the point where I am taking passes on Asian Tour races because they take so much out of my tired, old body and it is getting much harder for me to contribute (or justify my spot). I know how hard it is to get here, and the sacrifices it takes, and I look at these guys, who I know have worked just as hard as me to be in these races but who don't stand a chance, and I truly wonder what it is that keeps them going.

Can you withold you vitriol long enough to think about what I am talking about...OK. Let it fly.
Bob Dopolina is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:00 AM
  #58  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by elgalad
You arrogant ass.

Did it ever occur to you that some people enjoy racing, rather than just winning. Perhaps those people whom you don't recognize and you have labelled as wasting their time are out there pushing themselves to their limit just to hang on? Maybe for them, hanging with the group is winning.

So you've been racing for a long time, big whoop, here, have a cookie, you've earned it. Those other guys are probably just starting out, and maybe they'll be the ones at the front in a few years. Then again, maybe they won't, but perhaps for them the fun comes from competing, not from having everyone tell them what a great bicycle racer they are because they won some podunk race that nobody and his mother give a crap about, because at the end of the day, enjoying life is what it's all about, win, lose, or draw, if it makes you feel alive, you're winning.
FEEL the BF love....
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:03 AM
  #59  
Carbon Fiber Bones
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 980

Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I race to win, every time.

I want to win, I train to win, I focus every part of my being on being in the best possible mental and physical state to achieve a place on the podium.

But at the end of the day, when it's all been won or lost, I love racing. Of course I enjoy winning more than losing, it's only natural, but to sanctimoniously suggest that those who spend a lot of time as pack fodder should quit, even though they may be working toward their own goals, or that someone should pull themselves from a race just because they aren't in a position to win is blatantly absurd.

Can you imagine the TdF if, at the end of the first week, everyone team that didn't have a man inside the top 10 GC places just pulled from the race and went home? It's be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by BOB Dopolina
Can you withold you vitriol long enough to think about what I am talking about...OK. Let it fly.
Perhaps we should be clear that PCad's original post was directed at amateur racers (ie. Cat 2,3,4,5), not at professionals, who obviously have to approach racing and winning as a job, rather than a hobby.
elgalad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:09 AM
  #60  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by elgalad
Perhaps we should be clear that PCad's original post was directed at amateur racers (ie. Cat 2,3,4,5), not at professionals, who obviously have to approach racing and winning as a job, rather than a hobby.
It was actually aimed at amateur racers and the Chicago Cubs.
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:10 AM
  #61  
Carbon Fiber Bones
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 980

Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
It was actually aimed at amateur racers and the Chicago Cubs.
I stand corrected
elgalad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 04:18 AM
  #62  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Here's what I find cool about racing as I get older: I started racing in my early 30's and raced very regularly for 7 full seasons before I was sidelined for 5+ years by a back injury. I resumed cycling in April of 2005, and now that I'm pushing 50, I am astonished to find that here in the NY area there are an amazing number of guys aged 50-65 who are STILL racing. I'd like to be one of them. I may not be as competitive as I was @ age 35, but I think we can all agree that a 55 year old who is out there training, racing and riding with guys 20-30 years younger has a brighter future than his pals who are fat, sedentary, and waiting for the next heart attack. And that applies to all ages. Sports are good for your body, mind and spirit. Few things can more positively impact the quality of your life in my opinion.

At the end of the day the real value of amateur sports like cycling, running, etc. has little to do with who wins or loses. There are far bigger issues and benefits. But whatever floats your boat. When it comes to racing, win or lose, in the most important sense all the participants...

win.

The Cubs however will never win. It's comforting to know some things don't ever change.

Last edited by patentcad; 08-31-07 at 04:24 AM.
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 06:00 AM
  #63  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Cromulent
I thought Vince Lombardi said that. Of course here in Green Bay Packer country, we believe that Vince Lombardi still coaches the Packers. We also believe he invented the printing press.
Lombardi invented Wisconsin, or so I hear.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-31-07 at 06:25 AM.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 06:08 AM
  #64  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
I may not be as competitive as I was @ age 35, but I think we can all agree that a 55 year old who is out there training, racing and riding with guys 20-30 years younger has a brighter future than his pals who are fat, sedentary, and waiting for the next heart attack.

Jim Fixx (age 52 heart attack)would disagree.

Agree as long as the doctor sees you for checkups.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 06:24 AM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
Maybe I should have added a few qualifiers for some of you. What you're saying may be true for Cat 5,4,3 or Masters riders I don't know anyone who races at an Elite level who is there just to have fun. I guess you missed the part where I talk about all the work it takes ANYONE just to be there and how we all have bad days and good days. I just don't understand what motivates the guys I am describing - the guys who NEVER have good days. That's what I'm trying to talk about.

As for the Pudunk race, we didn't attend because it conflicted with the stage race we wanted to do in Butt****, nowhere.

As for my arrogant ass (and I'm not sure what you're doing looking at my ass anyways) when you have sponsors who invest time and money in you and your team, they have expectations. Those expectations involve things like winning. Showing up and having a good time just doesn't cut it in their eyes no matter how much you love the sport or racing in general. This changes your perspective about racing a little.

Is there anything about what I had to say that you can see? Or understand? If it makes you feel any better those younger guys are already at the front (I guess you missed that point, too) and have been for some time. I work for them now. I'm at the point where I am taking passes on Asian Tour races because they take so much out of my tired, old body and it is getting much harder for me to contribute (or justify my spot). I know how hard it is to get here, and the sacrifices it takes, and I look at these guys, who I know have worked just as hard as me to be in these races but who don't stand a chance, and I truly wonder what it is that keeps them going.

Can you withold you vitriol long enough to think about what I am talking about...OK. Let it fly.
I raced in Europe for two seasons on a sponsored team that rode out of Belgium, and I never met or talked to anyone that thought like you have expressed.

I go back to a story that was in Velonews back in the spring about the Tour of California where one of the kids on the US Development team was getting dropped on what was the first climb of the race. He suddenly felt a hand in the small of his back, looked and it was World Champion Paolo Bettini pushing him back to the peloton. Those were the types (personalities) of people I knew.

Frankly, using your logic the Tour de France could be raced with about five riders. And it could be shortened to about four or five stages, maybe six. Three or four climbing stages, a couple of time trials and be done with it. Why does World Champion Tom Boonen ride the Tour? He can't win the whole race. I guess riders like Rubiera should have given up racing long time ago. In my case, I was not close to the best rider, but was good enough to help the team win.

Whatever...everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-31-07 at 06:31 AM.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 06:45 AM
  #66  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Jim Fixx (age 52 heart attack)would disagree.

Agree as long as the doctor sees you for checkups.
Planes crash all the time. However it is still exponentially safer to fly than to drive. Your anecdotal citing of Fixx's premature death (from a heart condition whose ample warning signs he did ingore by the way) is misleading at best. Fit 50-80 year old cyclists get hit by cars far more often than they keel over from coronaries. And their chances of the latter are far less than the general population of that age. You want guarantees? Bet against the Cubs winning a World Series in your lifetime.

By the way, my recent extensive experience with doctors does make me believe that there is also a very high risk associated with some of the bad advice some of them seem to routinely dole out. Risk that can sometimes exceed the perils of not seeing a doctor at all. Trust me on that. So by all means do go to your doctor. And question EVERYTHING: any good doctor I personally know would concur. And of course, thank God for the good doctors or Pcad wouldn't be cycling at all. Dr. Pete please take note, I don't want him to think I'm bashing his profession : ).
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 06:48 AM
  #67  
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217

Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
I raced in Europe for two seasons on a sponsored team that rode out of Belgium, and I never met or talked to anyone that thought like you have expressed.

I go back to a story that was in Velonews back in the spring about the Tour of California where one of the kids on the US Development team was getting dropped on what was the first climb of the race. He suddenly felt a hand in the small of his back, looked and it was World Champion Paolo Bettini pushing him back to the peloton. Those were the types (personalities) of people I knew.

Frankly, using your logic the Tour de France could be raced with about five riders. And it could be shortened to about four or five stages, maybe six. Three or four climbing stages, a couple of time trials and be done with it. Why does World Champion Tom Boonen ride the Tour? He can't win the whole race.

Whatever...everybody's entitled to their opinion.
WTF are you guys talking about? Really? Did either of you actually READ what I posted? What's my point? Tell me?

"I'll take 'I'm so great and everyone else is a loser', for 100 , Bob?"

BZZZZZ. Wrong.

"How about, 'Unless you win then you are a loser and should just go home a lie on the sofa in a fetal position until you mom tells you it's time to go to work?' for 200, Bob?"

BZZZZZ. Wrong again!

Geeze.

Don't you get it or do I have to spell it out like a Mattlock style?

I'm looking at these guys kill themselves to be fodder and I don't understand how they do it. When did I ever talk about them quiting? I am trying to fathom their motivation as it gets harder and harder for me to both motivate myself and to ride as well as I did 10 years ago.

I'm seeing the future and wondering what it is going to take and if I have it!!!!!

I'm not slamming them. I am slightly in awe of them and baffled by them at the same time!

As for the TdF analogy...man. In case you missed it cycling is a team sport. They guys that win, win because their team mates place them in a situation where it is possible. Even though they, themselves don't step on the podium, they contribute to the overall success of the team.

As for Bettini, don't think I haven't stuffed my share of juniour or cadets back into the back of their race as I ride behind them on the course warming up. Too many times to count. For real.

Maybe I'm expecting to much intelligent discourse on BF. I didn't realize that everything would be so literal and it would be mostly bickering like we all worked at FOX. Doesn't anyone read anymore?
Bob Dopolina is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 07:31 AM
  #68  
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,920

Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Jim Fixx (age 52 heart attack)would disagree.

Agree as long as the doctor sees you for checkups.
Incorrect. Jim Fixx would have died by 30 if he hadn't been a runner.
kensuf is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 07:53 AM
  #69  
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 22 Posts
The inability of many here to see the Big Picture is fascinating, yet predictable. That is oddly comforting.
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 07:58 AM
  #70  
I'm fine.
 
Cromulent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 2,263

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sport, IRO Rob Roy

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina

I'm looking at these guys kill themselves to be fodder and I don't understand how they do it. When did I ever talk about them quiting? I am trying to fathom their motivation as it gets harder and harder for me to both motivate myself and to ride as well as I did 10 years ago.

I'm seeing the future and wondering what it is going to take and if I have it!!!!!

I'm not slamming them. I am slightly in awe of them and baffled by them at the same time!
My best finish this year was 15th in a Masters 30+ 4/5 race. That's light-years away from where you are. I pay my money, get my number, line up, and go. For now that's still fun. I try to win, and maybe I will one of these days.

I wonder what I'll think 45 years from now (if I'm still around) when I find my old race numbers in a junk drawer somewhere. I might think, "Gosh, I really, really sucked at that." And if I do, I think I'll laugh. And hopefully I'll also remember how fun it was to go fast.
Cromulent is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 09:06 AM
  #71  
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
The inability of many here to see the Big Picture is fascinating, yet predictable. That is oddly comforting.
pcad ---That's an arrogant statement. Each person ought to be able to choose how they wish to live their life.

Getting serious between a start and finish line is not a bad thing. What's wrong with a litle hard fought competition?

I've got the big picture clearly outlined everyday of my life. Family responsibilities, etc...

When I go pay money to compete officially against my friends, we become cavemen and fight to the death (figuratively). Afterwards it's back to the "big picture".

It's that simple and still can be "fun".
YMCA is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 11:56 AM
  #72  
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by blonduathlongrl
did you guys go pro or something?
Not I. Just my competition.

It's for fun, of course - but when was the last time you saw 10 paramedics running calls at your local 5k...
Snuffleupagus is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 12:06 PM
  #73  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Not I. Just my competition.

It's for fun, of course - but when was the last time you saw 10 paramedics running calls at your local 5k...
I dont do local 5'k but at my last duathlon there were paramedics and when I ran Boston there were paramedics every 5 miles or so does that make the race more worthy of being called a race in YOUR eyes?

My point is, the other races are not to be dismissed just because they are not what YOU race, tri sprints are very competitive.
blonduathlongrl is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 12:10 PM
  #74  
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by blonduathlongrl
I dont do local 5'k but at my last duathlon there were paramedics and when I ran Boston there were paramedics every 5 miles or so does that make the race more worthy of being called a race in YOUR eyes?

My point is, the other races are not to be dismissed just because they are not what YOU race, tri sprints are very competitive.
I'm not dismissing them, but nobody is going to argue that the type of "mongo crush" competition you get in road cycling is replicated in other more completion oriented (vice results oriented as is cycling) endurance sports.
Snuffleupagus is offline  
Old 08-31-07, 12:39 PM
  #75  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
I'm not dismissing them, but nobody is going to argue that the type of "mongo crush" competition you get in road cycling is replicated in other more completion oriented (vice results oriented as is cycling) endurance sports.
Yeah, I have a lot of respect for the other endurance sports, but bike racing is significantly different. I'm not saying it's "better," but it really can't be compared to the others. Just think about the mentality of a mid-field finisher in a triathlon. What's likelihood that this personality would head off to do a crit? Bike racing is scarier from the outside. It's like the endurance of a triathlon, with a bunch of track and field events thrown in, with the thrills and risks of mass-start auto racing.

A mid-field tri finisher likely doesn't have the strength to stay with a cat 5 pack in a crit. Cat 3s like me are just considered "good" on Coggan's power profile, but most could go out and get top-5 age-group placings in a local tri.

Running and multisport are just much more individual sports. You go out, and you suffer on your own. Your interactions with others are limited to "on your left." I've done one tri, and it was extremely difficult. I was in a lot of pain from the run, and I had a horrible swim. Still, I got 3rd in my age group. I came away from it missing the strategy and head games of bike racing -- the real in-your-face competition. I can now say I've done a tri, and the sport has maintained my respect. It's just not as fun for me.
waterrockets is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.