Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Look KG386i
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    My Bikes
    2004 Look KG386i
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Why do you try to rush into CAT 4?

    Now, correct me if I'm wrong ... I'm simply going by what I've read here.

    It seems as if a lot of riders new to racing are quickly grasping for a CAT 4 upgrade. My question is, why? If I raced, I would think I'd stay in CAT 5 until someone basically forced me to go to CAT 4. Wouldn't you just get better and better until you're winning every CAT 5 race, then someone just plops you into CAT 4? I don't understand why riders are essentially "barely" making the cut into CAT 4 when they could hone their skills in CAT 5 for another 10 races.

    Keep in mind, I've never raced, so this is possibly a naive question

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, WA
    My Bikes
    2004 Cannondale R600
    Posts
    564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    From what I have heard, Cat 4 is slightly less dangerous than Cat 5 and the paces are higher. If you Cat up, you are going to have to try harder and longer to win, etc. So there is an advantage there. As well as with the rider experience and then there is the fact that you can start winning cash prizes as a Cat 4.

  3. #3
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin (near TX)
    My Bikes
    rkwaki's porn collection
    Posts
    26,112
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If your goal is to learn to race, Cat 5 is not the place to do it. Cat 3 is. Get there as fast as you can.

  4. #4
    Oh The Huge Manatee Lithuania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    mabra
    Posts
    4,528
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Its not so black and white.

    I do agree that some people do rush out into cat 4 before they should but its not really a big deal. All you are trying to do is race ten times to get used to actually racing. Cat 4 isnt really that much different other than the fields being larger and races being longer.

    Some people rush to get to cat 4 so they can do masters races. Others do it just so they can start racing for points or whatever instead of nothing like in cat 5.

    There can also be huge differences in talent in cat 5 since almost everyone has to start there so why wait once you have your 10 races? Cat 4 isnt going to be much harder and in some cases it may even be easier. You are going to get better faster in cat 4 than you will lingering in cat 5 since the talent around you is changing more frequently.

    Thinking that staying in cat 5 is an easy way to win all the time you are wrong because there are always super strong riders that have the fitness and ability to be in higher cats but dont have the required experience needed to be a cat3+

  5. #5
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,416
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Obviously,
    i'm not in the rush to upgrade category, and I think there is some advantage in staying at a level where you have a chance to win regularly, and learn how to manage those situations.

    But after a bit if you want to improve, you need to race better competition.

    Additionally, you know in every Cat 5 race there are going to be new racers doing their first race that have no clue what they're doing. There's an advantage getting away from that.

    Also, I think there's a fairness issue. Cat 5 is supposed to be for beginners. Once you're no longer a beginner, its appropriate to move on and make room for a new crop of beginners.

  6. #6
    semifreddo amartuerer 'nother's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern CA
    My Bikes
    several
    Posts
    4,599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by calhoun1 View Post
    From what I have heard, Cat 4 is slightly less dangerous than Cat 5 and the paces are higher. If you Cat up, you are going to have to try harder and longer to win, etc. So there is an advantage there. As well as with the rider experience and then there is the fact that you can start winning cash prizes as a Cat 4.
    I think you are misinformed. 4s are not necessarily less dangerous, or slower, than 5s. In fact, it may be the opposite, depending on the specific race. You have to understand that 5s are a mixed bag; you have strong riders who have never raced (but are good) right alongside weak riders who have also never raced (but suck). It is a mistake to judge someone's ability simply based on the fact that they are racing 5s they may just be passing through briefly. But everyone has to start there, no matter how good they are.

    I can't speak for everyone who "rushes" into the 4s, but to me there is really no advantage of staying in the 5s longer. Experience? You will get basically the same in the 4s. Many times 4s and 5s fields are combined, anyway. Wins? A Cat 5 win is no different than a Cat 5 race start. Easier race? Ha ha, you are dreaming. More/less dangerous? no way...all categories have crashes.
    Can you pass the test?
    Yield to Life.

  7. #7
    Used to be a climber.. GuitarWizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Providence, RI
    My Bikes
    None at the moment
    Posts
    6,821
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In the very few races I've done this year, in both Cat 5 only and Cat 4/5 fields....I didn't notice any difference between the two.
    1999 Trek 2500 - hit by a car on it in May, 2011 and currently bikeless

  8. #8
    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,348
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Most people are in a hurry just so they don't have to tell others that they are a Cat5 anymore...

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,544
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm in a hurry because I'm a Cat 4 on the track. I just don't race enough on the road to get my upgrade.

  10. #10
    Race to train jrennie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    suffering on the back
    Posts
    3,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So you can get one step closer to the P1/2 and the big bux

  11. #11
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    My Bikes
    Focus Raven 29er, Santa Cruz Blur LTc
    Posts
    4,576
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cmyke View Post
    Now, correct me if I'm wrong ... I'm simply going by what I've read here.

    It seems as if a lot of riders new to racing are quickly grasping for a CAT 4 upgrade. My question is, why? If I raced, I would think I'd stay in CAT 5 until someone basically forced me to go to CAT 4. Wouldn't you just get better and better until you're winning every CAT 5 race, then someone just plops you into CAT 4? I don't understand why riders are essentially "barely" making the cut into CAT 4 when they could hone their skills in CAT 5 for another 10 races.

    Keep in mind, I've never raced, so this is possibly a naive question

    How do you hone your skills by winning every race? That means that you're far superior to everyone out there, and no matter what you do, you win. Meaning you don't learn from your mistakes. And that is pretty much the opposite of what any racer, from 5 to Pro, wants to do. We learn through our failures, not the things we do correctly. By pushing hard, making an error, coming back the next weekend and making better on an opportunity.

    And just a personal anecdote here:
    In the 4/5s (I was never actually a 5) I never came close to winning a race. I simply didn't have the sprint for it, and the tactical side at that level is pretty much nonexistent. I made my upgrade to the threes through accumulation of top 10s. In the 3s, I've racked up more podiums and top 10 finishes than I did in the 4s. I was forced to figure out how I was going to survive, and how I was going to be able to be a factor, other than a field sprint. In the 4s it was just a matter of making sure I closed gaps and put myself in a decent position most of the time, which doesn't fly in the 3s. So, I took my strength, and worked on it, and worked on it, and... you get the point. Coupled with a newly found tactical knowledge and my ability to start, bridge to, and work in breaks, I'm able to get the results.

    Soon enough, I'll have to figure all of this out again, and get used to life in the Pro/1/2 field (later this month...). And, that probably means getting a coach. My rate of recovery is still improving, but my fitness is just slowly creeping upward.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bantam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    My Bikes
    Trek 1500
    Posts
    1,187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I want to race 3s as soon as possible because it will teach me more so I need to get through Cat 5 and 4 as quickly as possible. No one that I train with is a 5, so races are a bit lonely.
    2009 Paralympic Fast-O-Meter: 3/8

  13. #13
    Senior Member acape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    662
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm planning to race twice this weekend and once next Tuesday. After that I should be eligible for my upgrade. My only hesitation with upgrading then is that I probably won't do any more races until next season and I'm wondering if I should stay with the 5's until after a race or two next year, just so I'm not jumping straight into the faster 4's fresh out of the offseason. Anyone have thoughts on this?

  14. #14
    Announcer EventServices's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In the drops.
    My Bikes
    Too many and not enough
    Posts
    4,998
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did you stay in 3rd grade until you aced every single test?

    It's human nature to want to advance.

  15. #15
    semifreddo amartuerer 'nother's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern CA
    My Bikes
    several
    Posts
    4,599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by acape View Post
    I'm planning to race twice this weekend and once next Tuesday. After that I should be eligible for my upgrade. My only hesitation with upgrading then is that I probably won't do any more races until next season and I'm wondering if I should stay with the 5's until after a race or two next year, just so I'm not jumping straight into the faster 4's fresh out of the offseason. Anyone have thoughts on this?
    Hate to answer a question with a question, but seriously, what do you expect to gain from doing so, that you couldn't do as a 4?
    Can you pass the test?
    Yield to Life.

  16. #16
    Look KG386i
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    My Bikes
    2004 Look KG386i
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
    Did you stay in 3rd grade until you aced every single test?

    It's human nature to want to advance.
    Obviously.

    What I was trying to say was it seems like the new CAT 5ers learned how to doggie paddle, yet they're desperately trying to enter the 400m freestyle.

    I guess I was under the misconception that each CAT was essentially a learning curve, which resulted in an upgrade when you got an "A," rather than a holding ground for you to complete a specific amount of races, regardless of skill.

  17. #17
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,416
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by acape View Post
    I'm planning to race twice this weekend and once next Tuesday. After that I should be eligible for my upgrade. My only hesitation with upgrading then is that I probably won't do any more races until next season and I'm wondering if I should stay with the 5's until after a race or two next year, just so I'm not jumping straight into the faster 4's fresh out of the offseason. Anyone have thoughts on this?
    Go ahead and upgrade, and it will put more urgency on your off season preperation for next year.

  18. #18
    Oh The Huge Manatee Lithuania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    mabra
    Posts
    4,528
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cmyke View Post
    Obviously.

    What I was trying to say was it seems like the new CAT 5ers learned how to doggie paddle, yet they're desperately trying to enter the 400m freestyle.

    I guess I was under the misconception that each CAT was essentially a learning curve, which resulted in an upgrade when you got an "A," rather than a holding ground for you to complete a specific amount of races, regardless of skill.
    You are over estimating the difference between cat 4 and cat 5.

  19. #19
    semifreddo amartuerer 'nother's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern CA
    My Bikes
    several
    Posts
    4,599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cmyke View Post
    What I was trying to say was it seems like the new CAT 5ers learned how to doggie paddle, yet they're desperately trying to enter the 400m freestyle.
    I'd say that's a gross overestimation of the difference between 4 and 5. What you describe is more like the difference between 5 and *2*.


    I guess I was under the misconception that each CAT was essentially a learning curve, which resulted in an upgrade when you got an "A," rather than a holding ground for you to complete a specific amount of races, regardless of skill.
    It's different for each category. To go from 5 to 4 you need 10 mass starts. STARTs, not wins, not podium finishes, not top 10s, heck, not even finishes. 4 -> 3 requires some actual work
    Can you pass the test?
    Yield to Life.

  20. #20
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    8,188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think "CAT 4 is safer" is a common misconception. Some of the most brutal crashes I've seen were in CAT4 races. I think it's a combination of people rushing through 5s who still are not all that good in a pack, but now they are going faster and think they can ride. Also now they are not "newbie" 5s so they put higher priority on winning, even thought they are racing for crap prises, so they take more chances. All this leads to spectacular crashes.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  21. #21
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    My Bikes
    2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
    Posts
    6,312
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cmyke View Post
    Now, correct me if I'm wrong ... I'm simply going by what I've read here.

    It seems as if a lot of riders new to racing are quickly grasping for a CAT 4 upgrade. My question is, why? If I raced, I would think I'd stay in CAT 5 until someone basically forced me to go to CAT 4. Wouldn't you just get better and better until you're winning every CAT 5 race, then someone just plops you into CAT 4? I don't understand why riders are essentially "barely" making the cut into CAT 4 when they could hone their skills in CAT 5 for another 10 races.

    Keep in mind, I've never raced, so this is possibly a naive question
    About that...
    Bring the pain.

  22. #22
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    My Bikes
    2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
    Posts
    6,312
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by acape View Post
    I'm planning to race twice this weekend and once next Tuesday. After that I should be eligible for my upgrade. My only hesitation with upgrading then is that I probably won't do any more races until next season and I'm wondering if I should stay with the 5's until after a race or two next year, just so I'm not jumping straight into the faster 4's fresh out of the offseason. Anyone have thoughts on this?
    Everyone else will be fresh out of the offseason as well. Do it.
    Bring the pain.

  23. #23
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    east coast
    My Bikes
    Cervelo R3
    Posts
    3,094
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Also, I think there's a fairness issue. Cat 5 is supposed to be for beginners. Once you're no longer a beginner, its appropriate to move on and make room for a new crop of beginners.
    This is exactly why. We don't have citizen races anymore, so cat5's became the event for the true beginner.

    When men had to start at cat4, it was okay to stay in 4's forever if needed, but it was no place for the true beginner. That's why we have 5's. So after 10 races, get the heck out.

  24. #24
    Oh The Huge Manatee Lithuania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    mabra
    Posts
    4,528
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
    I think "CAT 4 is safer" is a common misconception. Some of the most brutal crashes I've seen were in CAT4 races. I think it's a combination of people rushing through 5s who still are not all that good in a pack, but now they are going faster and think they can ride. Also now they are not "newbie" 5s so they put higher priority on winning, even thought they are racing for crap prises, so they take more chances. All this leads to spectacular crashes.
    I agree. There wasnt a single crash in the 10 cat 5 races I did and just about one in every cat 4 races ive done including one that took my out and sent me to surgery. Heck in one race alone there was 4 crashes.

  25. #25
    Texas Fight! UT_Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    If your goal is to learn to race, Cat 5 is not the place to do it. Cat 3 is. Get there as fast as you can.
    Want to race some 4/5's races on a one-day and pull me to a win?
    T E X A S F I G H T !
    http://www.chriscollins.org

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •