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Old 09-15-07, 09:56 AM   #1
CharlieWoo
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Strong TT rider after 45?

So I'm really interested in TTing. I did some crit racing about 10 years ago. I'm 44 now, though. Is it possible to be a strong TT rider after age 45?
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Old 09-15-07, 10:08 AM   #2
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Yes.

One of my best friends won the IL state TT a couple weekends ago, P/1/2. The guy who won the masters TT beat his time the first time he did the course. He then did it again, barely losing to the young whipper snapper in his second time trial of the day.

Incidentally, I ride with the new P/1/2 state TT champ (on my former collegiate team) all the time, and the state Masters TT champ and RR/Crit champ on occasion. The masters guys are on the same team, and one of them has a son who is a 2 on our team as well.


Oh, and the guy who won the overall took 2nd at the masters nationals TT two months ago. Mark "Druber" Schwartzendruber. Sweet dude.

Synopsis: Live in fear should you ever show up to a group ride in Champaign County, IL.
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Old 09-15-07, 10:36 AM   #3
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Many masters are BLISTERING fast. Most will not contend for overall times at a TT (though occasionally) as there is always some young punk rail thin and watts seeping from the pores, but can be faster than 90% of the other racers out there. In other words, you will have your work cut out for you being up against some stiff competition, but enjoy, because you might end up being the competition (I won't call RacerEx old, but neither he nor I are exactly spring chickens, and he has a BLISTERING fast TT in him).
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Old 09-15-07, 10:58 AM   #4
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Kent Bostic seemed to do pretty well, although a freak of nature.
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Old 09-15-07, 11:15 AM   #5
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We have our M45+ nat champ who regularly gets 1st or 2nd in the P/1/2 TTs around here (this season he was injured). He's TT-ing right around 29.5mph on a hilly course. I think he's 47 now.
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Old 09-15-07, 11:23 AM   #6
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We have our M45+ nat champ who regularly gets 1st or 2nd in the P/1/2 TTs around here (this season he was injured). He's TT-ing right around 29.5mph on a hilly course. I think he's 47 now.
Cool. I doubt I can reach that level, but I want to at least look respectable.
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Old 09-15-07, 11:24 AM   #7
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Not for Pcad perhaps.

But it is certainly possible. Frighteningly so.
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Old 09-15-07, 12:03 PM   #8
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i dont want to burst your bubble, but many of the guys mentioned in this thread make up for their age with 10-15+ years of training.
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Old 09-15-07, 12:31 PM   #9
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i dont want to burst your bubble, but many of the guys mentioned in this thread make up for their age with 10-15+ years of training.
Nope, I don't think Robbie started racing until he in his 40s. I don't think he rode much before that.

If he had started racing 25 years ago, he'd probably be one of the guys we talk about from the Lemond/Indurain generation, so he's not a run-of-the-mill sample for cycling talent.
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Old 09-15-07, 12:37 PM   #10
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If you stay active as a racer, you can certainly be within 5% of the time you did @ age 35 when you're 50+. That means if you could do 58 mins. for a 40KM TT @ 35, you could theoretically 2:30 slower @ 50. The winning time @ the Highpoint TT in May for the 45+ was 22:08. The winning time in the 35+ was about 1:20 faster. That's about a 5% difference, that's about right. I rode a 26:39 that day coming off a serious stomach illness that week (acid reflux). So maybe on a better day I might have been @ 26 mins. or so. I think I may have gotten under 25 mins. on that course @ age 35. And I still may if I can get my training **** together. It's fun (sometimes) trying.

I train pretty hard. You can only get as fast as you can get within your limits. But age is not as limiting as genetics in my opinion. Fast guys are fast when they're 50. Ask Ned Overend.

If Dr. W. is still racing in 20-25 years, he'll still be breaking the hour in a 40KM TT. I may never do that. G - E - N - E - T - I - C - S, boys. Say it with me.
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Old 09-15-07, 12:49 PM   #11
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If Dr. W. is still racing in 20-25 years, he'll still be breaking the hour in a 40KM TT. I may never do that. G - E - N - E - T - I - C - S, boys. Say it with me.
Don't agree. I bought all of my speed.
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Old 09-15-07, 12:53 PM   #12
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Don't agree. I bought all of my speed.
My Gold Card is cocked WJ. Link me to the site.

Actually you bought 5% of your speed. The other 95% was bequeathed you by God.
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Old 09-15-07, 02:02 PM   #13
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So I'm really interested in TTing. I did some crit racing about 10 years ago. I'm 44 now, though. Is it possible to be a strong TT rider after age 45?
Sorry to say no. You will never be as fast as a 20-something with equal training experience and genetic potential. But so what? If you're getting into it to earn a place on a professional or national team, it's too late, and you might as well give it up. if you're doing it to gain some enjoyment and self-satisfaction then it realy doesn't matter what your time is.

And I'll let you in on something. As a promoter and official I can say this. We really don't care. How fast someone does or doesn't ride makes almost no difference to us. We're out there working almost the same time regardless of how fast anyone rides since it only depends on the last few starters and the difference is only a few minutes anyway. In fact, I'd rather see a first time junior riding and wait 10 extra minutes than have some senior who thinks he's doing us a favor by showing up finish a few minutes faster.
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Old 09-15-07, 02:38 PM   #14
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Sorry to say no. You will never be as fast as a 20-something with equal training experience and genetic potential. But so what? If you're getting into it to earn a place on a professional or national team, it's too late, and you might as well give it up. if you're doing it to gain some enjoyment and self-satisfaction then it realy doesn't matter what your time is.

And I'll let you in on something. As a promoter and official I can say this. We really don't care. How fast someone does or doesn't ride makes almost no difference to us. We're out there working almost the same time regardless of how fast anyone rides since it only depends on the last few starters and the difference is only a few minutes anyway. In fact, I'd rather see a first time junior riding and wait 10 extra minutes than have some senior who thinks he's doing us a favor by showing up finish a few minutes faster.
Right. So what? TT's on the amateur level are more like an amateur 5K or 10K race. How fast are you compared to those in your age group or to last year's time. At the last TT I did there were 215 participants (about). About 80 were slower than me, 135 were faster. How many were within spitting distance of the fastest men? 30 out of 215? Something like that. In other words 80% of the entrants had no prayer of winning their race. But they keep showing up.

If TT's were only for the Dr. W's of the world there would be 30 cyclists there on race day, not 200.
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Old 09-15-07, 03:04 PM   #15
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Sorry to say no. You will never be as fast as a 20-something with equal training experience and genetic potential. But so what? If you're getting into it to earn a place on a professional or national team, it's too late, and you might as well give it up.
Heavens no. I'm a realist. Wouldn't have wanted to be a pro even if I could have. Way too much work for the return they get, IMHO.

I will say that I think I could TT now faster than I could when I was in my 20's. I was really thin and had no leg strength. I'm 5-10, 170 now and have much more muscle mass on my legs.

I guess my one advantage is that I'm basically financially independent, so if I want to, I can devote all my time and energy to training. Want to keep it enjoyable, though.
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Old 09-15-07, 04:09 PM   #16
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I was really thin and had no leg strength. I'm 5-10, 170 now and have much more muscle mass on my legs.
Leg strength is irrelevant for TT's (at least any longer than 1 km). http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/
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Old 09-15-07, 04:45 PM   #17
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Sorry to say no. You will never be as fast as a 20-something with equal training experience and genetic potential.
Not necessarily, the younger guys will have a much better top end (aka win all crits and most RR) but pay a small price for that high-end power in pure aerobic ability, as the type II fibres can’t be both subtype A and B simultaneously.

http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm

One could propose that that older athletes could use their increased training volume to maximize both muscle fibre interconversion towards fast twitch type A, and their capillary infrastructure (density). This interconversion also explains the loss in very high-end power (efforts much shorter than VO2max length efforts, say… 5s) which can not be easily explained away with the known decrease in VO2max. Good thing long TTs are not VO2max type efforts (but I am aware that LT is somewhat capped at a % of VO2max).

Yes this violates your “equal training” requirement, but it’s not fair to invoke that, as there is nothing the young guys can do about the years-training measure other than get older. Number of years doing sport specific training is a measure that always strongly correlates with improvement (but yes I understand you can get correlations stats to lie).

Another factor is that old guys sometimes have more money which helps.

The long time trail is the event that older guys have the best chance of beating the 28 - 31 year olds.

Isn’t Vino aka RacerX “old”?
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Old 09-15-07, 04:48 PM   #18
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Old 09-15-07, 04:50 PM   #19
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I think the thirty-somethings are much faster than the 20-somethings.
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Old 09-15-07, 04:57 PM   #20
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Yes this violates your “equal training” requirement, but it’s not fair to invoke that, as there is nothing the young guys can do about the years-training measure other than get older.
But this case is for someone who hasn't trained for 10 years so it's reasonable to compare him to a younger person starting from a similar position. The question is not whether additional years of training can overvome the effects of aging. The question is given a 22, 32, 42, and 52 year old with 2 years of training, who will be fastest. Not whether a 22 year old with 2 years is faster than a 32 year old with 12, 42 with 22, etc.

If you want to know what age is fastest regardless of training history, check the record books.
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Old 09-15-07, 05:25 PM   #21
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But this case is for someone who hasn't trained for 10 years so it's reasonable to compare him to a younger person starting from a similar position. The question is not whether additional years of training can overvome the effects of aging. The question is given a 22, 32, 42, and 52 year old with 2 years of training, who will be fastest. Not whether a 22 year old with 2 years is faster than a 32 year old with 12, 42 with 22, etc.

If you want to know what age is fastest regardless of training history, check the record books.
Agreed.
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Old 09-15-07, 06:49 PM   #22
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When you are older it is likely that you have survived teen-aged children. This will greatly increase your capacity to suffer.
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Old 09-15-07, 06:57 PM   #23
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When you are older it is likely that you have survived teen-aged children. This will greatly increase your capacity to suffer.
Not nearly as much as surviving 10 years with my ex-wife!
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Old 09-15-07, 07:47 PM   #24
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When you are older it is likely that you have survived teen-aged children. This will greatly increase your capacity to suffer.
Are you sure you're dumb enough to be here? You sound too smart for this popsicle stand.
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Old 09-15-07, 08:11 PM   #25
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What's that phrase?

The older the bull the harder the horns....
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