Namenda

The Beastie Boys called, they want their schtick back.

Trevor98

What else is the case based on other than the lab results? Are you honestly saying that the bizarre testimony by Lemond swung the opinion?

I hate to break it to you, but both the A and B sample tests are from the same lab and suffer from the same trust issues. As for the pure science of the IMRS tests, there is significant doubt about the validity of the LNDD test threshold for exogenous testosterone (1 in 4 markers vs. 1 in 2 for other labs). The whole case hinges upon the lab work, and that lab has lost it's credibility- so much so that the USADA arbitration panel warned them to clean up their act or an future case as messed up as this one might be thrown out. The most important aspect of any lab is it's credibility.

Your rat hole about Millar is simply bizarre- he didn't face the music until overwhelming and credible evidence (his own admission couple with some undeniable evidence of EPO vials) left him absolutely no
deniablity. He was faced with denying what he admitted and look stupid or face the consequences of his doping. There is nothing noble in his role. The rest of your example still have the opportunity to deny, he does not.

Why are you so willing to believe the prosecutors? Forget Landis' denials and defend the trustworthiness of the accusations as they are what matter.

bikegummo

I think the point that can be made is not the "once a liar, always a liar" thing. That's simplistic and unrealistic. What I think is worth taking away is that FL was willing to hide something fairly significant (in terms of professional cycling) from his team and coach--and his reason is maybe even understandable, as someone expressed with the "put me in, coach" comment above.

But when you follow this path, it's pretty easy to make the leap that he also was willing to sacrifice (sell out?) his integrity (or truthfulness or character) with doping--again, the reason might have been rooted in some kind of self-preservation or "put me in, coach" mentality (in an "I'm competitive, I'm fast, I gotta win" kind of way), that on the surface seems almost understandable (or possible). The thing is, it's wrong and against the rules, whatever you think of labs and the rest.

But the path from hiding an injury to further your career, to doping for the same reason, seems like a reasonable leap for the guy (and therefore skydive's original point seems, at it's root, to make at least a little sense), no?

Chevy

Been watching this for a while. Read the book. I'm no big fan of Floyd.

I'm a retired USAF test pilot and we have this saying: "show me the data". We're real picky about that cuz people don't lose endorsement contracts when the science is bad..they die.

The lab did a sloppy job form start to finish. In a real lab standards are standards, procedures are procedures. And by their own admission they were a tad casual about adhering them. The "data" is thus crap. Period.

Landis's motivations, propensity to tell whoppers, etc etc are all irrelevant.

edzo

botto's post is full of win