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  1. #1
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    too much base? / what do I do till Dec. 17??

    Noob question:

    My first road racing season ended Sep 10th.
    Based on my racing schedule/crit training series start date, I have selected the week of Dec 17th to begin my base period (base 1).
    I plan on using a Friel inspired periodization schedule, I will have 12 weeks base before my build periods start.

    My question is this: Should I try harder to stay off the bike over the next 6-7 weeks or should I feel free to do rides every time I please without worry of a less effective training plan?

    Currently when i ride I make sure to keep my effort (HR) in the zone 1 and 2 range with only brief glimpses of zone 3. My focus has been on smooth pedaling and bike handling (and fun!)
    I commute 50-70 miles per week and have been riding 50-130 miles per week in addition to this commuting. Terrain is rolling with no major climbing. 10-15 hours per week.
    Most of my rides over an hour have been on weekends, usually lasting 2.5-3.5 hours.
    I've been lifting weights (mainly for core strength/muscle balance/injury prevention) and running 1-2 per week for short distances.
    My legs have felt good with no real soreness or fatigue. I feel slow, but not out of shape.
    I have been making conscious efforts to keep my intensity as low as possible.

    Is this appropriate to maintain as Dec. 17 approaches or should I aim to keep my riding volume lower?
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  2. #2
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
    My question is this: Should I try harder to stay off the bike over the next 6-7 weeks
    No.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  3. #3
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    your'e in the Northeast . Ride cyclocross. in the fall. Take a couple of weeks off , end of December, thenstart your next season prep.

  4. #4
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Why would anyone stay off their bike? This does not make sense in the Pcad Cycling Zen lexicon.

    I know you're trying to get fast and be Mr. Friel Scientific and all that crap, but try not to be such an insufferable Wussy*. Harden the F Up. And since they are getting closer, Happy Friggin Holidays.

    *Pcad Enterprises makes no representation as to the Training Intelligence of such conduct. Any Pcad suggestions should probably be ignored as extreme cycling stupidity certain to make you slower.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    thanks for the replies, especially Pcad.

    I have a special place in my heart for Belgian hardmanship.

    My only goal with this question was to get a sense of what to do in this situation from more experienced racers.

    Thanks again... keep 'em coming.
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  6. #6
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
    thanks for the replies, especially Pcad.

    I have a special place in my heart for Belgian hardmanship.

    My only goal with this question was to get a sense of what to do in this situation from more experienced racers.

    Thanks again... keep 'em coming.
    Ride a little less, try to keep it in the little ring, mix in some cross training and take an extra day off each week. That's not what I'd do, but for me cycling is an more of an addiction, not a hobby or sport. It is the only addiction I can remain unrepentant about. You are probably a normal American amateur bike racer. That still makes you borderline straight jacket material, but you do have a lower resting HR going for you.

  7. #7
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    How can you have too much base? That's like saying, "I'm too fit to start building"

    The only thing that should keep you from starting a base period now would be whether or not you can stay motivated with the extra month and a half of base under your belt come spring. If you can't do that, then I would say, in Pcadesque style, "Harden the F Up"
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  8. #8
    cmh
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    Ride as much as you like and has hard as you like. There is especially nothing wrong with some tempo and LT riding to boost your LT. Start into Friel's base training program on Dec 17th, but until then do whatever you want, just make sure you enjoy it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
    Noob question:

    My first road racing season ended Sep 10th.
    Based on my racing schedule/crit training series start date, I have selected the week of Dec 17th to begin my base period (base 1).
    I plan on using a Friel inspired periodization schedule, I will have 12 weeks base before my build periods start.

    My question is this: Should I try harder to stay off the bike over the next 6-7 weeks or should I feel free to do rides every time I please without worry of a less effective training plan?
    Currently when i ride I make sure to keep my effort (HR) in the zone 1 and 2 range with only brief glimpses of zone 3. My focus has been on smooth pedaling and bike handling (and fun!)
    I commute 50-70 miles per week and have been riding 50-130 miles per week in addition to this commuting. Terrain is rolling with no major climbing. 10-15 hours per week.
    Most of my rides over an hour have been on weekends, usually lasting 2.5-3.5 hours.
    I've been lifting weights (mainly for core strength/muscle balance/injury prevention) and running 1-2 per week for short distances.
    My legs have felt good with no real soreness or fatigue. I feel slow, but not out of shape.
    I have been making conscious efforts to keep my intensity as low as possible.

    Is this appropriate to maintain as Dec. 17 approaches or should I aim to keep my riding volume lower?
    You should feel free to ride as you please without worry about compromising your training plan. Also, dont be too pedantic about staying in Zone 1 and 2, if you're out with some others and the pace picks up, or feeling good, or whatever, and want to speed things up, go ahead and do so. Focus being on having fun.

    Not sure what edition of friel you're using, but when you start doing your endurance mile rides, there's friel coach recommendations to match your intensity at what they're calling the AeT or Aerobic threshold, which approximates to about LTHR - 20 bpm using a HRM. This is also at about the Z2/Z3 break point for most athletes.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    great responses, thanks gentlemen. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear.

    As a year round commuter, hardening the f' up is really not an option for me. Riding through 4 inches of fresh snow at 20 degrees F is one of my greatest bragging moments and one I would never pass up (and also a wholy unique and rewarding experience). So is the feeling of being 300k into a ride and realizing your only half way finished... and then it starts raining...
    Making fun of my riding buddies for not riding year round is also one of my greatest (perverse) joys, and as such, you all doing the same to me feels strangely comfortable and encouraging... keep the motivation coming.

    thanks again,

    Leo in Boston
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  11. #11
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
    hardening the f' up is really not an option for me.
    That's a hanging curveball Wussy Breath.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    hahahaha... PERFECT!
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    I dont understand this thread..... So it comes down to riding base or not riding at all cause youre worried about "too much base"?


    Think of all the fitness you will lose if you stop training for a month (even if the training would be "base").

  14. #14
    RustyTainte substructure's Avatar
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    The only time I heard, "Too much base," was when my wife saw my older daughter applying makeup for the first time.

    So this goes dirrectly in line with, "Harden the f' up!"

    If Pcad is still on two legs without the aid of a walker after all the miles he's done, then no one needs worry.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfrogge View Post
    I dont understand this thread..... So it comes down to riding base or not riding at all cause youre worried about "too much base"?


    Think of all the fitness you will lose if you stop training for a month (even if the training would be "base").
    nope, never considered not riding at all, just trying to figure out what intensity levels are most benneficial here.
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  16. #16
    half man - half sheep Doggus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    That's a hanging curveball Wussy Breath.
    The Sox won (read: The NY Yankers lost) in case you haven't heard. Time for a more relevant cliche, for instance "That's a slap shot Wussy Breath".
    "The cycling community is so small that it is nearly inbred." - Steve Tilford

  17. #17
    Young and unconcerned Treefox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggus View Post
    The Sox won (read: The NY Yankers lost) in case you haven't heard. Time for a more relevant cliche, for instance "That's a slap shot Wussy Breath".
    Didn't even know there was a World Series on.

    *yawn*
    Die schokoladenseite des radfahrens.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Stallionforce's Avatar
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    I'm in the camp of 'no base'. I say ride hard all year, but drop the volume in the off season. Otherwise, if you go into an extended base phase, you never experience radical gains in fitness, because you always start off the season with the same condition as the previous.

  19. #19
    Carbon Fiber Bones elgalad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallionforce View Post
    I'm in the camp of 'no base'. I say ride hard all year, but drop the volume in the off season. Otherwise, if you go into an extended base phase, you never experience radical gains in fitness, because you always start off the season with the same condition as the previous.
    This is true if by for base training, you just spend 12-14 weeks trundling around at endurance pace. The key is to spend the first 4-5 weeks solely on endurance work, but then start introducing intensity work, so that you spend a decent amount of time working at higher exertion levels before you get to the start of the season.

    Get thee a copy of the bible (Friel's bible, that is), and you shal come to the light

  20. #20
    Senior Member classic1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
    How can you have too much base? That's like saying, "I'm too fit to start building"

    The only thing that should keep you from starting a base period now would be whether or not you can stay motivated with the extra month and a half of base under your belt come spring. If you can't do that, then I would say, in Pcadesque style, "Harden the F Up
    "
    You could ask these guys....






    Actually you can't. Two of them are dead. Amazingly Keef is still alive.

  21. #21
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca View Post
    I plan on using a Friel inspired periodization schedule,
    Opps, there goes your next season down the toilet....

    Quote Originally Posted by same guy
    I've been lifting weights (mainly for core strength/muscle balance/injury prevention) and running 1-2 per week for short distances.
    Waste of time.

  22. #22
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca
    I plan on using a Friel inspired periodization schedule,
    Opps, there goes your next season down the toilet....
    Well, I suppose it depends how far the "inspired" goes.

    Periodization = good, effective, proven.

    Friel workouts filling it = not so good, boring.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  23. #23
    Carbon Fiber Bones elgalad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
    Well, I suppose it depends how far the "inspired" goes.

    Periodization = good, effective, proven.

    Friel workouts filling it = not so good, boring.
    If you could elaborate a bit I'd love to hear more of what your opinions are (that's not a dig, I'm genuinely interested). You seem to have it together training-wise, and I'm always keen to improve my training.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post
    Opps, there goes your next season down the toilet....



    Waste of time.
    What a totally worthless post.

  25. #25
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgalad View Post
    If you could elaborate a bit I'd love to hear more of what your opinions are (that's not a dig, I'm genuinely interested). You seem to have it together training-wise, and I'm always keen to improve my training.
    I'm certainly no training guru, and get all the help I can get. However, IMO, Friel's workouts are geared to the 15+ hr per week rider and adapted down. His base phases seem to me to be ridiculously light on the intensity or assume everyone starting Base 1 has come off a very extended period off.

    The "ride lots" mentality works if you can ride LOTS. If not, and you're riding consistently shorter hours (from folks I talk to or hear from, 8-10 seems normal), you could be filling a lot of those "E??" workouts with something that will actually benefit your aerobic "base" - 2 hrs @ L1 is not going to do it - or better put - it's not going to do it nearly as well as a more intense workout, or 4 hours @ L1.

    Simply put, what intensities work @ 15-20 hours per week are not going to work as well at 8-10 hours per week (and especially less), but that seems to be the assumption that the Training Bible makes. If I come in doing "by the book" workouts w/15 hours per week and you come in doing the same workouts @ 8 hours per week, one of us will have a bigger aerobic base. If you want to match the next guys training hours without doing all of the same amount of hours, it seems to me that you need to add some intensity (intelligently and incrementally) to replace the time on the bike the other guy has.

    Important in this remains good recovery, nutrition, and training load increase.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

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