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  1. #1
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    New article on SST

    If you haven't seen it elsewhere:

    http://www.fascatcoaching.com/traini..._partdeux.html
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  2. #2
    Cat WTF
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    Thanks for posting this. I'm giving this a shot during the off season.

  3. #3
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Sweet spot is the bomb. I don't train by numbers, but love this term, ever since I heard it a few years ago. It's great he gave all the examples in his updated version, as it makes it easier for the masses to understand what he means in the real world, other than just with numbers on a meter.

  4. #4
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Training example 2 was pretty much described to me by UT_Dude's coach (our state TT champ) for his group ride training. For the Tuesday Nighter or ATC (our two main fast weekly rides), he will go to the front on all the flats and descents and pull really hard (not an attack -- though it feels like it to mortals). Then when he gets to the hills, all the guys who have been drafting will attack and/or keep the pressure on, he drops to the back of the pack and tries to recover without falling off, then does it again on the next flat.

    Seems to work ok for him

    I don't know if I'll ever have the maturity to treat the Tuesday Nighter as an SST opportunity, but maybe if I can race more on weekends I won't be so hungry to race on Tuesdays. Of course, there is a bit of a fitness differential -- if I went hard on the flats, I'd be OTB on the next hill.

    I have been rotating an SST ride in every couple weeks, trading off with 10 minute and 20 minute intervals, depending on the week. Still never miss the sprints, 1-minute, and 4-minute intervals though.

  5. #5
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    I get 1-2 SST sessions in a week. Almost always a 2 hrs @ 90-91% and maybe a "one hour intro" to a long ride @ 93-94% threshold. 2x20's are rare in my program. I can only do 2-3 weeks with 2x20's in the weekly plan before I start dreading them.

    My favorite is still 2 hrs @ 91% with 3-4x4 minute hill intervals @ 120% w/20-30 sec recovery before getting back in the SST groove @ 91%.The hill intervals give your legs the perception that 91% is really not that big a deal. (edited to add that I space the 4 minute intervals to whereever it is convenient on the route)
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  6. #6
    The mods changed this... damocles1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
    I get 1-2 SST sessions in a week. Almost always a 2 hrs @ 90-91% and maybe a "one hour intro" to a long ride @ 93-94% threshold. 2x20's are rare in my program. I can only do 2-3 weeks with 2x20's in the weekly plan before I start dreading them.

    My favorite is still 2 hrs @ 91% with 3-4x4 minute hill intervals @ 120% w/20-30 sec recovery before getting back in the SST groove @ 91%.The hill intervals give your legs the perception that 91% is really not that big a deal. (edited to add that I space the 4 minute intervals to whereever it is convenient on the route)
    It's also called a cyclocross race...

  7. #7
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
    I get 1-2 SST sessions in a week. Almost always a 2 hrs @ 90-91% and maybe a "one hour intro" to a long ride @ 93-94% threshold. 2x20's are rare in my program. I can only do 2-3 weeks with 2x20's in the weekly plan before I start dreading them.

    My favorite is still 2 hrs @ 91% with 3-4x4 minute hill intervals @ 120% w/20-30 sec recovery before getting back in the SST groove @ 91%.The hill intervals give your legs the perception that 91% is really not that big a deal. (edited to add that I space the 4 minute intervals to whereever it is convenient on the route)
    Yeah, I can't do that with my schedule. My long rides are 60 minutes

  8. #8
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    Yah... I'm spoiled.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

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    I've think Example 4 has caused the largest improvements for me, but before the power meter I would never have thought it was SST. Now looking at the files from more recent group rides, I see that I spend a lot of time in the SST range.

  10. #10
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Example 1 reminds me of a coach that used to prescribe intervals, where you went balls out in the beginning, faded hard and hung on for dear life all the way to the end, even if you were down to 15 mph, going all out with fatigue. Rest what it took, then go again.

    Here, fsacat has you doing say 2 hours with the beginning right under 40k TT pace, then letting yourself slow as fatigue sets in, even fininshing the workout in high end zone2, because that's all you have left without having to bury yourself.

    Hmmm... sounds a lot like old Euro training. Head out the door for a few hours on 52x15 without breaks, finish tired.

  11. #11
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Explaining this to Pcad would be like talking to a cave man about car insurance.


  12. #12
    cmh
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    The way fascat describes sst is almost like "ride lots". Almost all of my rides (except recovery rides) at this time of year fall into one of the SST workouts, although I don't have a power meter to verify my normalized power is in the right range. I guess when a lot of people go out to "ride lots" they are riding at more like tempo power for longer, rather than sweet spot. My favorite ride at this time of year is to get into a sweet spot heart rate on the fixie and hold it for 60-90 minutes. I imagine my power would be lower at the end of the 90 min since I hold roughly the same HR.

  13. #13
    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    This is my favorite kind of ride and I feel it's where I made my best fitness gains during the off-season and early-season last year. I do find it hilarious, though, that this article seems to prescribe an opposite approach to the offseason than this article which was written by the exact same guy four years ago and was referenced today on BF in this thread.

    --Steve

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
    This is my favorite kind of ride and I feel it's where I made my best fitness gains during the off-season and early-season last year. I do find it hilarious, though, that this article seems to prescribe an opposite approach to the offseason than this article which was written by the exact same guy four years ago and was referenced today on BF in this thread.
    --Steve
    I'm glad someone brought this up.

    Is there a better time of the year than now through early spring on the internet racing and training forums?

  15. #15
    wavylines
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
    I do find it hilarious, though, that this article seems to prescribe an opposite approach to the offseason than this article which was written by the exact same guy four years ago and was referenced today on BF in this thread.
    Hmm, I don't see it that way. The point of sweet spot is to get in long periods of time a little under your threshold. So notice that in the "SST part deux" article, the group ride tactics he mentions are all longer efforts, like riding in the wind, taking an extended pull or hanging on with a faster crowd. In the "training race" article, he's talking about sitting in at L2 then throwing down L5 and 6 attacks. A different beast.

    My new favorite: nighttime sweetspot. I just got a set of lights, and there's a state park with a barely used 9 mile loop road near my house. 3 laps before bedtime beats the h*ll out of the trainer, fersure.
    At least I offer my own disaster.

  16. #16
    base training heretic Squint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
    This is my favorite kind of ride and I feel it's where I made my best fitness gains during the off-season and early-season last year. I do find it hilarious, though, that this article seems to prescribe an opposite approach to the offseason than this article which was written by the exact same guy four years ago and was referenced today on BF in this thread.
    Yeah, it's puzzling. I think he either dumbed it down a lot for the masses or wanted some people to think, "SST is great and I'm already doing it. I've got my validation for the day!" so it's more palatable.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
    It's also called a cyclocross race...
    Cycloross racing the direct opposite of sex.... If youre doing it right it hurts.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Training example 2 was pretty much described to me by UT_Dude's coach (our state TT champ) for his group ride training. For the Tuesday Nighter or ATC (our two main fast weekly rides), he will go to the front on all the flats and descents and pull really hard (not an attack -- though it feels like it to mortals). Then when he gets to the hills, all the guys who have been drafting will attack and/or keep the pressure on, he drops to the back of the pack and tries to recover without falling off, then does it again on the next flat.

    Seems to work ok for him

    I don't know if I'll ever have the maturity to treat the Tuesday Nighter as an SST opportunity, but maybe if I can race more on weekends I won't be so hungry to race on Tuesdays. Of course, there is a bit of a fitness differential -- if I went hard on the flats, I'd be OTB on the next hill.

    I have been rotating an SST ride in every couple weeks, trading off with 10 minute and 20 minute intervals, depending on the week. Still never miss the sprints, 1-minute, and 4-minute intervals though.

    Theres one guy that rides like example #2 around here. Towards the end of the summer I would wait till he just got done with a really hard pull and make him suffer

    Hey it was my turn to SST

  19. #19
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    SST = super simple training.
    Even the caveman above could get it.

  20. #20
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    ZOMG!!!! It's the return of SST!!!

    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  21. #21
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    WTH is ZOMG?

  22. #22
    elitist jerk daytonian's Avatar
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    ^^^ tricky dick R600
    I feel like a soiled kleenex dropped in the gutter in the red-light district of Paris.

  23. #23
    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
    ZOMG!!!! It's the return of SST!!!
    There were not enough R600DA posts this past season and there have not been enough Dr. Pete posts as of late. Are you finding any time to ride?

    --Steve

  24. #24
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    First of all, awesome photoshop.

    Second of all, I'm glad to know that when I got the idea to go up to the front of the Saturday hammerfest I was actually engaging in highly scientific training and not just trying to get in a little extra work.

    Third of all, when I saw the title of the thread, I expected to see a Tu-144.

    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  25. #25
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    WTH is ZOMG?
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zomg
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

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