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Old 11-01-07, 08:05 AM   #1
RockyMtnMerlin
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Food for thought-how bad can it get?

I have read hundreds of posts here on doping, but I found this short article over at cyclingnews.com (which I'm sure many of you have seen) to be shocking and sad at the same time:

" The director of the WADA-accredited Swiss Laboratory for Analysis of Doping in Lausanne, Switzerland, has told Belgian newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws that he believed there was still widespread doping in the Tour de France this year. "47 out of 189 riders raced on blood transfusions or EPO," Martial Saugy alleged. "We have been able to show this from the samples taken at the health controls."

Still, Saugy added that these test results did not fulfil the requirements to be declared as 'positive'. "It is appalling, but we find so many test results that undoubtedly point to manipulation," he continued. "But there is a big difference between a suspicious sample and one that can be declared positive."

Saugy also found indications for the use of testosterone and growth hormone. "Especially the latter product is very popular at the moment," he added. "As soon as there will be a water-proof test for growth hormone, it will show that 80 percent [of the peloton] is taking it. I am disillusioned: the use of growth hormone is as bad as was the use of EPO and blood doping in the 90's."
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Old 11-01-07, 08:11 AM   #2
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And as soon as a foolproof test for hgh is developed, some other means of cheating will come along to take its place.

If 80% of the riders are cheating, is it really cheating? Are the other 20% of the riders idealists, poor, or just allergic to the medications?
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Old 11-01-07, 08:21 AM   #3
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Let's remember that, occasionally, these sources and news services are wrong. Part of the reason for this is because there's very little libel case law in Europe. Remember Willy Voet? This sounds similar.
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Old 11-01-07, 09:32 AM   #4
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Let's remember that, occasionally, these sources and news services are wrong. Part of the reason for this is because there's very little libel case law in Europe. Remember Willy Voet? This sounds similar.
how does libel come into this if he's not speaking about a specific rider but all riders in general?
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Old 11-01-07, 09:36 AM   #5
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It would be much easier to require doping. That will level the field quicker.
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Old 11-01-07, 09:51 AM   #6
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Which also means 142 out of 189 (that's about 75%) showed no blood irregularities whatsoever and appear to be clean. I don't think you would have found that five years ago.
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Old 11-01-07, 09:56 AM   #7
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Which also means 142 out of 189 (that's about 75%) showed no blood irregularities whatsoever and appear to be clean. I don't think you would have found that five years ago.
That number was just for transfusions and EPO. HGH was 80% of the peloton.

That just shows that 25% of the peloton is behind the times. And there's a special 5% doing two of the three...
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Old 11-01-07, 10:03 AM   #8
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Pcad is as clean as the driven snow if that makes you all feel better. I would only test positive for Domino's Pizza. Sadly, my riding last weekend did reflect my lack of creative blood chemistry.
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Old 11-01-07, 10:55 AM   #9
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Let's remember that, occasionally, these sources and news services are wrong. Part of the reason for this is because there's very little libel case law in Europe. Remember Willy Voet? This sounds similar.
I remeber Voet. They found him driving around with a trunk full of drugs then he dropped the dime on organized doping within Festina that led to the first historical round of teams being thrown out of the tour while the other teams that were doping who didn't get caught won.

THAT sounds familiar.
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Old 11-01-07, 02:50 PM   #10
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I remeber Voet. They found him driving around with a trunk full of drugs then he dropped the dime on organized doping within Festina that led to the first historical round of teams being thrown out of the tour while the other teams that were doping who didn't get caught won.

THAT sounds familiar.
He also lost a libel case against several riders that he, clearly, falsely accused. Remember that?
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Old 11-01-07, 02:50 PM   #11
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how does libel come into this if he's not speaking about a specific rider but all riders in general?
In the US, class action.
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Old 11-01-07, 04:06 PM   #12
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I have read hundreds of posts here on doping, but I found this short article over at cyclingnews.com (which I'm sure many of you have seen) to be shocking and sad at the same time:

" The director of the WADA-accredited Swiss Laboratory for Analysis of Doping in Lausanne, Switzerland, has told Belgian newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws that he believed there was still widespread doping in the Tour de France this year. "47 out of 189 riders raced on blood transfusions or EPO," Martial Saugy alleged. "We have been able to show this from the samples taken at the health controls."

GC hopefuls and domestiques that can climb.

Still, Saugy added that these test results did not fulfil the requirements to be declared as 'positive'. "It is appalling, but we find so many test results that undoubtedly point to manipulation," he continued. "But there is a big difference between a suspicious sample and one that can be declared positive."

Saugy also found indications for the use of testosterone and growth hormone. "Especially the latter product is very popular at the moment," he added. "As soon as there will be a water-proof test for growth hormone, it will show that 80 percent [of the peloton] is taking it. I am disillusioned: the use of growth hormone is as bad as was the use of EPO and blood doping in the 90's."
This is probably to euro pros as vitamins are to us. Stallone was busted in Australia with it and blew it off as a natural supplement and misunderstanding, paid his fine and rolled out.
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Old 11-01-07, 04:35 PM   #13
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Estimates by the Italian Sandro Donati in the mid-90's were that 70-90% of the peloton were doping at any one time.
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Old 11-01-07, 08:06 PM   #14
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I think doping is prevalent down to the upper echelons of the Cat 3s - I think virtually all "local" racers are clean, but based on rumor and innuendo, I'd like to see massive testing at, say, Nationals or big regional stage races. If you count hobbyist bodybuilders as dopers, perhaps down to Cat 5s (but their "doping" probably doesn't help their racing at all). This is just based on what I see, the racers I've seen race who eventually got caught doping (around here there are at least three guys got caught and suspended that I know of), and the guys who beat them regularly.

An article I find interesting/fascinating:
http://outside.away.com/outside/body...ug_test_1.html

HGH is pretty easy to buy. I get legit emails with sales on HGH, EPO, injectable iron (?). This isn't the "holistic" stuff (1 part per million), it's the real stuff. Steroids and stuff are out there too but I don't get mails on those.

For some revealing posts and well thought out and cycling fluent questions and answers, check out cuttingedgemuscle's forums (under endurance athletes). It's depressing. CEM also sells.

cdr
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Old 11-02-07, 10:14 AM   #15
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Let's remember that, occasionally, these sources and news services are wrong. Part of the reason for this is because there's very little libel case law in Europe. Remember Willy Voet? This sounds similar.
For every iffy story, there is a book by an ex-pro admitting his drug use and the fact that you can't get out of U23 without doping.
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Old 11-02-07, 10:18 AM   #16
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