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Old 11-05-07, 09:22 PM   #1
johncc48
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wheel touches ?

I have been watching more racing this year and have seen several wheel touches send riders down. From my limited viewing it looks like the guy in the back takes the hardest fall. Sometimes the front guy escapes.
Am I observing this correctly or is it just my limited view?
What are the issues of who will go down and how the wheel touch actually causes crashes?

Thank you.
John
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Old 11-05-07, 09:30 PM   #2
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Many crashes involving overlapped wheels can/should be avoided. It's possible to ride it out if you stay loose on the bars and anticipate the steering reaction that's going to happen when you pull off the wheel.

That said, if the guy in front moves over quickly they can "chop" the rear guy's front wheel - something that generally results in a little taste of the pavement. Either way, the front rider shouldn't go down.
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Old 11-05-07, 09:46 PM   #3
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your front wheel pivots, your back doesnt. when somebody cross their front over anothers back, they go down because the stationary wheel does not go off course much like the pivoting front wheel.
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Old 11-05-07, 09:53 PM   #4
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The only way that the front person could possibly go down is if the other person rams into the back of them at a HUGE speed difference. Like 30mph hitting a guy going 20.

That, or he's got his entire front wheel next to the rear wheel of the guy in front of him. And then slides out, completely chopping said rear wheel. I wouldn't call that "touching wheels" though...

Or someone comes over VERY suddenly and destroys your front.

Those three are the only forseeable occasions that should cause a person to go down. Otherwise, just bumping wheels is simply part of the game, and easily corrected. I did it three times this season, twice in a state of severe anaerobia, trying to recover in a break by sucking wheel realllllly close, and was able to hold 'er up. The other was just a case of carelessness on my part, sitting in the pack.
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Old 11-05-07, 09:56 PM   #5
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All competitive cyclists should get together with friends or your club in a grass field and practice touching wheels. The day will come when you will tell yourself it was some of the most productive training you've ever done.
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Old 11-05-07, 10:27 PM   #6
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All competitive cyclists should get together with friends or your club in a grass field and practice touching wheels. The day will come when you will tell yourself it was some of the most productive training you've ever done.
+1, i have a few friends that like to ram into me to see if they can knock me over...hasn't happened yet.
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Old 11-05-07, 10:30 PM   #7
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if it touches...and you have time turn into the wheel...i know that doesn't sound right but it works....and if that doesn't work tuck and roll grandma.
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Old 11-05-07, 10:31 PM   #8
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Was involved in a crash last week at track where this happened. Two guys in front, overlapping wheels touched and the rear guy went down right in front of me, I went down too.

Nasty stuff
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Old 11-05-07, 10:36 PM   #9
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The only way that the front person could possibly go down is if the other person rams into the back of them at a HUGE speed difference. Like 30mph hitting a guy going 20.
I regularly train and race with guys that could crash you (or me) from behind if they wanted to. There doesn't have to be that huge of a speed difference.
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Old 11-05-07, 10:50 PM   #10
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All competitive cyclists should get together with friends or your club in a grass field and practice touching wheels. The day will come when you will tell yourself it was some of the most productive training you've ever done.
+1 I used to try to knock my friends off the trails on mountain bikes from behind. It's great practice. I usually resorted to a stiff-arm to the hip with a large speed differential, but the wheel bumps are fun too. This was in safe areas, where weekly cheap-shots were expected.
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Old 11-06-07, 04:44 AM   #11
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+1 I used to try to knock my friends off the trails on mountain bikes from behind. It's great practice. I usually resorted to a stiff-arm to the hip with a large speed differential, but the wheel bumps are fun too. This was in safe areas, where weekly cheap-shots were expected.
rubbing bars can also be helpful.
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Old 11-06-07, 06:06 AM   #12
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rubbing bars can also be helpful.
As are track-stand pushover battles, and trying to grab your (moving) opponent's opposite brake lever.

Pretty much any kind of wrestling you can do on a bike is good practice
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Old 11-06-07, 10:54 PM   #13
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As are track-stand pushover battles, and trying to grab your (moving) opponent's opposite brake lever.

Pretty much any kind of wrestling you can do on a bike is good practice
well then. sound like i'm a bit soft. time to toughen up for road season "Happy Gillmore style".
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Old 11-06-07, 11:52 PM   #14
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I regularly train and race with guys that could crash you (or me) from behind if they wanted to. There doesn't have to be that huge of a speed difference.
I can't remember the last time I saw the front guy go down without the one in back going down, if ever.

I've rammed a nearly stationary guy at full speed from behind without him going down (caught underneath a madison exchange- he went from racing to relief, I went straight into him).
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Old 11-06-07, 11:56 PM   #15
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I can't remember the last time I saw the front guy go down without the one in back going down, if ever.

I've rammed a nearly stationary guy at full speed from behind without him going down (caught underneath a madison exchange- he went from racing to relief, I went straight into him).

You race the track so you're familiar with Mark Whitehead. The two guys that I know can do it(I've seen one) were trained by him. I couldn't do it but it involves some trickery with the rear guys front wheel. I had a guy pretty much fall over on my rear wheel last week when I was seated and it was no problem to keep riding. When your rear wheel is unweighted I guess it's a different story.
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Old 11-07-07, 12:06 AM   #16
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You race the track so you're familiar with Mark Whitehead. The two guys that I know can do it(I've seen one) were trained by him. I couldn't do it but it involves some trickery with the rear guys front wheel.
He seems like one of the few plausible sources of such dark arts. I'm going to have to check with some of the sprinters...

Considering some of the unexpected air I've seen people catch and not go down, it may not work on everyone though.
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Old 11-07-07, 01:10 AM   #17
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You race the track so you're familiar with Mark Whitehead. The two guys that I know can do it(I've seen one) were trained by him.
Why doesn't that surprise me?
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