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Old 11-20-07, 05:28 PM   #1
jkizzle
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training videos

im having trouble digging up any videos at all that have information for training, such as form, race tactics, sprint technique, tips for when to chase etc. im not very experienced at all, and itd be nice to have a FREE visual guide to race tactics to use over the winter so i can hopefully clean up early in the collegiate season next year and move up a division.

i know there are books, but its hard to learn that way, and with christmas break allowing about a month of uninterfered with riding, though away from the college team, im worried i wont have time to pick up the techincal skills that will give me an edge and keep me out of wrecks - the more experienced guys will probably only ride with us slow guys once or twice a week at the most in the month leading up to the season start.

so post any training or skill videos you know of!
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Old 11-20-07, 05:37 PM   #2
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQwxK...eature=related for track/tri positioning - its a start i guess
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Old 11-20-07, 05:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jkizzle View Post
im having trouble digging up any videos at all that have information for training, such as form, race tactics, sprint technique, tips for when to chase etc. im not very experienced at all, and itd be nice to have a FREE visual guide to race tactics to use over the winter so i can hopefully clean up early in the collegiate season next year and move up a division.

i know there are books, but its hard to learn that way, and with christmas break allowing about a month of uninterfered with riding, though away from the college team, im worried i wont have time to pick up the techincal skills that will give me an edge and keep me out of wrecks - the more experienced guys will probably only ride with us slow guys once or twice a week at the most in the month leading up to the season start.

so post any training or skill videos you know of!
I hate to say this, but no video is going to show you what you want/need to know.

It just doesn't work that way. You can't take any shortcuts in learning to play the game, simply because they don't exist. A video can't show everything that is going on in the race, from the slope of the road, the dead muskrat in the middle of the course on the first descent, the wind direction, gravel in turn 2, one team chasing everything down, etc. Too many variables and a camera can only show so much. You have to take your lumps as often as you give them out.
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Old 11-20-07, 07:57 PM   #4
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For a little of what you might expect, search for helmetcam clips here and on Youtube. I have some under sprinterdellacasa but there are a few others who have good clips. As I got into it more I tried to comment on what was happening (since people commented they wanted to know what I was thinking at this point or that point).

The last one I did was probably one of the better ones. I try and put down what I was thinking or what I was seeing. I skipped doing that in other ones but it's impossible, for example, to know that someone was shoving me really, really hard from the left in one of my clips, probably for 10 seconds. I didn't give up my spot and he had to back off. Anyway, I just posted this link to the "best way to train for for crits" thing but here it is again. (no one shoved me in this one):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-gqK3VKNqs

Another where there is some tactical discussion on screen is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syun-GZtkYg
With text here from the promoter's site (read all the ones on the 4/21 race):
http://plainvillespringseries.blogspot.com
and my view here, which the promoter c/p into his blog:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-in-rough.html

You should also check out Youtube clips by a BF guy who goes by socalrider909 on YT. He has a LOT of clips of great races and their finishes. The commentary, the body language, and the racing demonstrates a lot.

Ultimately you have to learn it by doing it. In one of my posts I liken racing to sex - you can read all about it but the first time you do it you realize how little you know about it.

hope this helps,
cdr
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Old 11-20-07, 09:10 PM   #5
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carpediem, i actually did see your videos and they good stuff!
what i am really looking for is not how to run a race though, id like to see a walkthrough on proper form for a sprint, or positioning yourself properly to make that sprint behind whoever is pulling you.

i know how to navigate a crowd and whatnot, but id like to learn how to suck wheel like a pro launching into the sprint. i guess thats one of those things that comes with being a pro and pro coaching haha
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Old 11-20-07, 10:16 PM   #6
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www.cycling.tv

Watch

Lots.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:21 PM   #7
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carpediem, i actually did see your videos and they good stuff!
what i am really looking for is not how to run a race though, id like to see a walkthrough on proper form for a sprint, or positioning yourself properly to make that sprint behind whoever is pulling you.

i know how to navigate a crowd and whatnot, but id like to learn how to suck wheel like a pro launching into the sprint. i guess thats one of those things that comes with being a pro and pro coaching haha
like duke already said, unfortunately you are asking for what does not exist
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Old 11-20-07, 10:36 PM   #8
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slightly off topic, but how long have u been riding? (im assuming you have not raced before?)
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Old 11-21-07, 07:13 AM   #9
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http://www.pccoach.com/products/book...ingtactics.htm

Ask for this ^^ book for christmas and read it while you're doing your bidness. It's got very good easy to understand information on pacelines, positioning, etc. I hear those robbie ventura race workout videos are cool, and watching the one day classic races on dvd (another good christmas gift idea available at world cycling productions) are options. BUT, at the end of the day, the only way to improve race skills is to race.
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Old 11-21-07, 09:28 AM   #10
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There's an anime cartoon about a fictional Vuelta de España that can be found if one looks hard enough (used to be on You Tube with English subtitles but got taken down - there's a Spanish subtitled one though if you can manage that). The 'announcers' do actually talk through race tactics quite a lot and because it's a cartoon there's no camera angle limitations. Nothing too technical, but I found it educational and it was good fun to watch too.

And all the good guys use Campy while the bad guys use Shimano.
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Old 11-21-07, 11:42 AM   #11
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slightly off topic, but how long have u been riding? (im assuming you have not raced before?)
getting close to a year now, ive raced informal stuff, but havnt done a crit yet or any really big formal mass starts (just doin what i can without a liscense for now ). for some reason there arnt a whole lot of crits around me it seems, everything is road races since its pretty rural. i got into racing towards the end of the season though too- cx and mtnbiking is big here too and so the focus really shifts to that at the end of summer.


im confident in handling with a group and most paceline tactics (my team is small so i doubt ill need much in the college d's anyway - we might field 2 other guys in that division).

i guess more than anything im looking for sprint technique. ill try that book soon too.
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Old 11-21-07, 12:21 PM   #12
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For sprinting the best thing to do is to go riding with a few other guys and go for a "finish line" or two. Some group rides include a sprint or two and although not everyone goes for it, it's educational if you do sprint. For your team, if you have rides, you can incorporate a sprint line in your rides (town line sprints are somewhat standard).

I learned to sprint by doing a now-defunct group ride on a 2 mile loop. 1 mile of "whatever you want to do to win the sprint" and 1 mile of "not allowed to make any moves whatsoever, recover from prior mile". Take turns leading each other out. You'll learn how far out you can go (or not), different sprint techniques and styles, etc. With up to 200 riders at a time, all categories, it was a wild 2-2.5 hour workout.

I learned a good lesson when I did alternating gear sprints - big (53x15 as a Junior) and little (53x19). You might use a 53x13, 53x17 instead. Don't shift. You learn how your starting gear affects your jump and similarly how it affects your top speed. It teaches you when to stand and when to stay seated as well.

Essentially there are two types of sprints - the long steady sprint (Petacchi, Cipollini, Hushovd) and the shorter jumpier sprint (McEwen, Abdujaporov).

If you don't have the best jump of the group, the long sprint is pretty much the best way to go. Not as much shifting but a 12-20 pedal revolution sprint. Since I'm not a long type sprinter I don't have tips here.

Jump riders like short sprints - under 10 revolutions. I actually counted revs in the wind for all the sprints in one year's tour (I was pedaling the trainer). Virtually all the sprints were won by a guy doing 8-13 revs in the wind. The Champs Elysee sprint, where everyone really goes for it with no thought for tomorrow, was 21 revs. (Check Worlds finishes too - the sprints are very long since no one is thinking about tomorrow). To do a jump sprint you'll jump hard in a slightly lower gear and shift up until you hit max speed or your top gear. Generally I shift twice in a sprint at 100% effort, sometimes more.

Regardless, jumping requires standing up, rocking the bike, pulling up on the upstroke side, pulling the bars up to counter the downstroke side, etc. Describing how to sprint is sort of like describing how to walk. It's very difficult to describe but it's easy to show (or to watch). I'd watch a lot of sprint finishes, focus on the guys who pedal like you, see what they do. Look at the other guys as well if only to learn what it looks like when someone blows up.

hope this helps,
cdr
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Old 11-21-07, 12:34 PM   #13
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that helped A LOT cdr, thanks!

ive watched a lot of mcewen sprints, because he manages some crazy stuff out of a pack, ill have to check out the other finishes you recomend as well, thanks!
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Old 11-21-07, 01:09 PM   #14
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getting close to a year now, ive raced informal stuff, but havnt done a crit yet or any really big formal mass starts (just doin what i can without a liscense for now ). for some reason there arnt a whole lot of crits around me it seems, everything is road races since its pretty rural. i got into racing towards the end of the season though too- cx and mtnbiking is big here too and so the focus really shifts to that at the end of summer.


im confident in handling with a group and most paceline tactics (my team is small so i doubt ill need much in the college d's anyway - we might field 2 other guys in that division).

i guess more than anything im looking for sprint technique. ill try that book soon too.
considering your background, i would not worry about sprint technique for now. you could definitely better spend your time working on base/threshold at this time of the year. and while there are many people who would advocate higher intensity training during the off season (partially including me), you will be racing for your first time next season. believe me your sprint technique wont be what holds u back. i was like you and did TONS of research on race tactics and such before my first race. during my first race however i didnt know what the hell was going on. there's just too much to take in and process. the learning curve is quick tho, so dont worry and have fun.

on a sidenote, it looks like you'll be racing with us in the MWCCC. always nice to see more ppl get out and race and ill most likely see you around at one of the races. since you've been riding for about a year though, i HIGHLY reccommend starting in the C's. D's is not worth anyone's time if you know how to ride in a group IMO.
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Old 11-21-07, 03:28 PM   #15
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considering your background, i would not worry about sprint technique for now. you could definitely better spend your time working on base/threshold at this time of the year. and while there are many people who would advocate higher intensity training during the off season (partially including me), you will be racing for your first time next season. believe me your sprint technique wont be what holds u back. i was like you and did TONS of research on race tactics and such before my first race. during my first race however i didnt know what the hell was going on. there's just too much to take in and process. the learning curve is quick tho, so dont worry and have fun.

on a sidenote, it looks like you'll be racing with us in the MWCCC. always nice to see more ppl get out and race and ill most likely see you around at one of the races. since you've been riding for about a year though, i HIGHLY reccommend starting in the C's. D's is not worth anyone's time if you know how to ride in a group IMO.
well ive got a pretty good base, or at least did up until 3 weeks ago when i got sidelined with an illness and exhibition of my work for school that took up all my time, but was doing around 120-160 a week. the reason i am looking for sprint technique is that in the next month or so, i plan to focus alot more on interval training outdoors before the january ice and snow hit. i can still do intervals on the trainer which ill be getting for christmas, but i wont be able to really sprint, and might not really be able to get outdoors much before or even during the first half of the mwccc season. the guys up north know a little bit more about clearing the roads it seems, and ill probably have a harder time riding the roads down here where they will still have enough ice and junk on them to make them unbikable than i will when i actually get to the races up there.

i was considering the c's but i really want to see where i am when the season starts. right now the b's on my team kick my butt, and while i have a good base, i dont have as great of power as i would like. ill likely start in the d's and hopefully move up as the season progresses. who knows if the heartrate training im going to start soon pans out as i hope, i might even be able to get up into the b's for a race or two at the end of the season. thats not too likely though...
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