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  1. #1
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    Flat TTs - ideal weight

    I was looking at Dave Z's web site and was surprised to see how thin he is; 6', 148 lbs. Even though he's a "TT specialist" I guess he still has to keep up with the rest of the Tour on other stages and must, obviously, put in the mega miles required of a Tour rider.

    Since speed on the flats is primarily a function of power/drag I wonder if he would be even faster on flat TT stages if he beefed up a bit.

    Hypothetically, if you said "Hey, Dave, forget the Tour; I've got $10M for you if you ride a flat, 40 km TT one year from today and do it in <= xx:xx:xx" and, if he went for it, dropped from the Tour and showed up in whatever form he wanted on the chosen date, do you think he would still be 148?

  2. #2
    Compressed
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    TT'ing well is more about mitochondrial density, O2 transport, muscular efficiency, etc than it is about brute strength. I doubt his weight would deviate that much.

  3. #3
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    If all he did was gain weight he would be slower...


    power... to... weight... ratio...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Compressed View Post
    TT'ing well is more about mitochondrial density, O2 transport, muscular efficiency, etc than it is about brute strength. I doubt his weight would deviate that much.
    In other words; I'm screwed.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieWoo View Post
    In other words; I'm screwed.


    All those parameters are highly trainable and weight can be lost so I wouldn't go that far.

    How bad do you want it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfrogge View Post
    If all he did was gain weight he would be slower...


    power... to... weight... ratio...

    Um, I said "flat" TT.

    My hypothesis is that, with the addition of a certain amount of beef, his power would go up.

  7. #7
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    You could always argue that with the addition of some muscle these guys could increase power/speed. That is not always the case, and IMO, probably not with Dave Z. He has found his optimum power/weight ratio at his listed racing weight.

    Some people gain muscle and get faster, some gain it and slow down. It's highly individual and wopuld be hard to answer definitively.

    DZ may be able to put on a few pounds of muscle and go .001mph faster, but evidently is doesn't benefit him or he probably would have done it.
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

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    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Dave Z achieves his results because he puts out a good amount of power, and has a GREAT position on the bike.

    Fabian Cancellara, who would be lying through his teeth if he said he weighs below a buck seventy, wins because he puts out an absolutely immense amount of power, in addition to a good, but not amazing, position on the bike.

    That said, you don't have to be particularly large to do a fast TT. If you have a good position on the bike, and a good amount of power, you can throw down some pretty mean times in a 40k. And beat plenty of people who produce more power than you do. However, I'd be lying if I said that bulk doesn't help in your average short, prologue type of TT. Raw power will overcome a less efficient position in short time trials.
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    I remember reading that the "ideal" weight for a track pursuit racer was around 165lbs for someone who is 5' 11". Pursuit racers are going to be "beefier" than time trialists however, as pursuits are typically 4km.

    So 148lbs sounds pretty reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieWoo View Post
    My hypothesis is that, with the addition of a certain amount of beef, his power would go up.
    Do a search on allometric scaling. CdA increases with weight.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Sincitycycler's Avatar
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    Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    "How did all those 'Keep Off the Grass' signs get there?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sincitycycler View Post
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    It's his job.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sincitycycler View Post
    Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    Because he's a domestique whose job is (was, now) to win time trials, and set the early pace on climbs?

    And if you look at some of his results from early this year, he had some pretty damn good finishes in the Dauphine Libere this year. 11th place on Ventoux, right next to Contador.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

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    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cslone View Post
    He has found his optimum power/weight ratio at his listed racing weight.
    Some could argue that his new found climbing prowess this year, I belive he was closer to 140 for Giro and Dauphne, hurt his TTing.

    He was up there in the TTs but I guess when your going up against the squeaky clean boys from Astana, you need that extra boost, not to infringe on anyones rights or anything.

  15. #15
    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sincitycycler View Post
    Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    5th overall at Dauphne, 3rd in the Giro upHILL TT, its called Vs., subscribe.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sincitycycler View Post
    Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    because he's just not a climber. too many people assume that just because some is small and/or light that they are automatically good climbers and if they are large that they can't climb. while being light is obviously helpful it's simply not the sole determining factor.

  17. #17
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    The world champ is about 176 pounds

  18. #18
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvfrompc View Post
    5th overall at Dauphne, 3rd in the Giro upHILL TT, its called Vs., subscribe.
    agree completely. the guy is probably one of the top 4 or 5 american climbers, just doesn't race for those.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz View Post
    because he's just not a climber. too many people assume that just because some is small and/or light that they are automatically good climbers and if they are large that they can't climb. while being light is obviously helpful it's simply not the sole determining factor.
    Apparently you missed the posts of all the people who posted before you...who were actually correct.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  20. #20
    Mitcholo CrimsonKarter21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
    The world champ is about 176 pounds
    Bettini or Cancellara?

  21. #21
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    plus 6' at 148# = less muscle mass than 5'7" 148#
    Ultimate Cat -o- Meter
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Duke of Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21 View Post
    Bettini or Cancellara?
    Bettini might break 65 kilos this winter. Maybe.
    "If a non personal post makes you feel as if you've been attacked, maybe the problem IS you."

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21 View Post
    Bettini or Cancellara?

    The topic is about time trialling, so take a guess.

  24. #24
    Compressed
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21 View Post
    Bettini or Cancellara?


    tell me why I shouldn't put you on ignore.

  25. #25
    elitist jerk daytonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sincitycycler View Post
    Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
    DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
    you must have missed the Dauphine Libere this year - 5th overall on GC
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Cr...b%C3%A9r%C3%A9

    edit; snap, already discussed above.
    I feel like a soiled kleenex dropped in the gutter in the red-light district of Paris.

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