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  1. #151
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005trek1200 View Post
    ie ride harder than the rest of the cat x's and it doesnt matter if youre tires are squared shaped. figured that.

    for what its worth my next ride will most likely have a 52/39/30 with a 10-speed 12-27, feel that will prolly be the best compromise between races and hillclimbing
    You're 23 and have, I assume, healthy knees. If anything get a compact. As you get stronger you won't need the compact and it won't cost as much to go to a 53/39.

    my .02.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  2. #152
    BALM Co. 2005trek1200's Avatar
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    Well in any case I won't be getting new wheels for at least another year.

    Anyone have any opinion on my cat 4 trainging program though??

    ""quoted from myself, from above...

    2.) is my current winter training acceptable?

    I just started riding a little over 4.5 months ago. I am rather fit. Endurance wise i can ride 70-100 miles at Tempo (17.5-18mph) any day of the week. i entered 1 cat 5 TT and 1 cat 5circuit race at the end of last year. didnt come in last in the TT, but close to it(stock bike, not even aero bars though). and in the circuit race i got dropped after a failed sprint to the front of the pack on a very windy day mid way through the race. (Many guys told me that it was really a cat 4 race given that 95% of the riders had already gained more than 15 races and were just waiting till the end of the season to upgrage.)

    so i started interval training two weeks ago. I do 10 miles of sprint intervals (as outlined in Lance;s performance progm book) and ride an 8 mile TT 4-5 days a week and ride at least a 50 miler once a week to keep endurnace up. i am also looking to add different intervals (ascending, and vo2 training) throughout the winter. since starting my average speed on rides is sloping higher 18.5-19.75mph. fastest ever average only 21.5.

    is this adequate to build up my fitness into next season adn race COMPETITIVELY within the cat4 (after my intial 10-15 early season cat 5 races)? or should i be training different? or harder?""""

    thanks guys
    Last edited by 2005trek1200; 11-08-09 at 11:10 AM. Reason: edited to include quote

  3. #153
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005trek1200 View Post
    ie ride harder than the rest of the cat x's and it doesnt matter if youre tires are squared shaped. figured that.

    for what its worth my next ride will most likely have a 52/39/30 with a 10-speed 12-27, feel that will prolly be the best compromise between races and hillclimbing
    Where are you taking your bike for hill climbing that requires a triple and a wide cassette? I used to live on the Southside of Chicago and then a rural area outside Lockport and I can tell you that you are hundreds if not thousands of miles from any climbs that need that kind of gearing.
    I'm the world's forgotten boy. The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy.

  4. #154
    BALM Co. 2005trek1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
    Where are you taking your bike for hill climbing that requires a triple and a wide cassette? I used to live on the Southside of Chicago and then a rural area outside Lockport and I can tell you that you are hundreds if not thousands of miles from any climbs that need that kind of gearing.
    i do hill training in Lemont, i am sure you know that little town. Only 250-280 verticl per 2.17 mile loop, but do 20 or 30 of those and its at least remotely simulating a hillclimb.

    i want a triple mainly because i intend to move to (or vaction often) the rockies. due to my size i should inherently pursue climbing because i feel that it could be my best discipline.

    be that as it may, you know Chi, most races here a flat, fast Crits. my current Trek may not be the best weapon of choice, but thats the bike i have and i intend to race with it, just trying to make sure that i am training properly.

    when the time comes for a new ride, i will surely field suggestions.

  5. #155
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    @ 2005Trek1200 - you doing any group rides? The bit that gets you isn't fitness, it's the way-over-threshold efforts that connect the easier parts of the race. So doing 21.5 mph avg is pretty fast - heck, I average 15-17 mph on most of my solo rides - but you'll need to be able to sustain short bursts of 30-32 mph minimum, maybe 32-35 mph. A really hard attack, on a wind assisted stretch, could easily hit 40+ mph, and that's for Cat 5s. Group rides help you realize what those bursts can be like. They also help you ride in a group, which is scary if you don't do it regularly.

    Tactics help too. You'll learn some of the basics in group riding. "Failed sprint to the front of the group" sends warning signals relative to tactics.

    You sound really fit. You're way more fit than me. But fitness has less to do with racing than racing smart and understanding tactics. I raced for the last few years at 180-195 lbs, 5'7", probably 25% body fat or higher. I've won a few races, all on uphill finishes, and I've placed in a bunch of them (Cat 3 or Cat 3-4). Learn the tactics and you'll be fine as a racer.

    cdr

  6. #156
    BALM Co. 2005trek1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    @ 2005Trek1200 - you doing any group rides? The bit that gets you isn't fitness, it's the way-over-threshold efforts that connect the easier parts of the race. So doing 21.5 mph avg is pretty fast - heck, I average 15-17 mph on most of my solo rides - but you'll need to be able to sustain short bursts of 30-32 mph minimum, maybe 32-35 mph. A really hard attack, on a wind assisted stretch, could easily hit 40+ mph, and that's for Cat 5s. Group rides help you realize what those bursts can be like. They also help you ride in a group, which is scary if you don't do it regularly.

    Tactics help too. You'll learn some of the basics in group riding. "Failed sprint to the front of the group" sends warning signals relative to tactics.

    You sound really fit. You're way more fit than me. But fitness has less to do with racing than racing smart and understanding tactics. I raced for the last few years at 180-195 lbs, 5'7", probably 25% body fat or higher. I've won a few races, all on uphill finishes, and I've placed in a bunch of them (Cat 3 or Cat 3-4). Learn the tactics and you'll be fine as a racer.

    cdr
    thanks cdr, i will be joining a local ride early next season who sponsors tuesday night crits in my area, 3 a night. (winter around here sends people inside, so no use even trying to find a riding partner(s).) the one experience i have with a crit, i did come to the understanding that you illustrated" intense efforts followed by recovering in a group. i am very comfortable riding in the pelaton, need to fine tune, but am comfortable, deff not scared as i have an alluminum bike so no worries about dinging my carbon. my problem came when i got caught on the windward side in heavy gusts, on a small downhill when the leaders decided that that was the point to string em out. i just couldnt sustain that intense effort that long to hold the rearest wheel.

    i have been practising a 1.5 mile interval, which kind of simulates a breakaway/sprint. where i push in a very hard gear max output for 30-35 sec. down shift to increase cadence and drill it for a minute or as much as i can take...then after im dead i judge my ability to keep the highest speed while still reovering arounf the 2nd half of the lap, and do it all again 10 times. trying to simulate a crit and the drumming that you mind and body takes. really hope it helps next season.

    cdr, thanks for all you posts/help. youre one of the few that gives honest to goodness answers and none of the flak. ive asked these questions in many forms in many topics and get mostly d*ickh*ad answers...

    M

  7. #157
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    Worried about crashing your awesome carbon fiber wunder bike? A ditty on crashing, and worrying about crashing.

    http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-crashing.html

    I thought it was posted here but it wasn't.

    cdr

  8. #158
    . botto's Avatar
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    cdr, that has to be one of your briefest posts yet.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    cdr, that has to be one of your briefest posts yet.
    I'm in recovery, but I'm not supposed to tell anyone.

    cdr

  10. #160
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    cdr, that has to be one of your briefest posts yet.
    But it has a link to one of his blog entries so that makes up for it being short.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  11. #161
    Senior Member RedLeg's Avatar
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    Are Zipp 808s, or similar rim depth wheels allowed for criterium races? Is it even a good idea?

    Thanks.

  12. #162
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Yes, if you can afford the 808s.
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  13. #163
    Senior Member johnybutts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    yes.

    Yes, if you can afford to replace the 808s.
    ftfy

  14. #164
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    I don't want to crap up the forum with another thread so I will ask here:

    I know a lot of you are from the New York City area. Would you recommend joining the CRCA or another organization to get involved in cycling in the area? I think that I can finally devote a bit more time to the hobby and I want to step it up by spending money on races and membership dues rather than bike parts. I also want to ride with others more often and considering the fact that I have not woken up before 6 AM in probably two years it isn't happening by way of chance encounters on the road, since I'm sleeping when most people are cycling.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
    I don't want to crap up the forum with another thread so I will ask here:

    I know a lot of you are from the New York City area. Would you recommend joining the CRCA or another organization to get involved in cycling in the area? I think that I can finally devote a bit more time to the hobby and I want to step it up by spending money on races and membership dues rather than bike parts. I also want to ride with others more often and considering the fact that I have not woken up before 6 AM in probably two years it isn't happening by way of chance encounters on the road, since I'm sleeping when most people are cycling.
    This is a valid thread for the regular forum.

    CRCA has club races in the city. There was some kind of a group ride in the evenings too, not sure if it's still going on. You'll also find riders who cross over to 9W and ride up and down that road. Finally you'll find riders who make it up to Gimbles on the weekends and holidays.

    I'll point out that many Saturday and Sunday races at Prospect Park and Central Park have a start at about 6-6:30 AM. You may have to wake up a bit earlier than normal to get out to some of the races.

    Nothing wrong with CRCA as far as I know. There are a bazillion sub teams, i.e. "CRCA/Sid's Bicycles", "CRCA/Radical Media", etc etc. I don't know how that stuff works. Oh. Pcad and gsteinb both race for one of the subteams.

    cdr

  16. #166
    . botto's Avatar
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    CRCA was my first club. i was on one of the first subteams.

    it's a great club to start out with. the night time rides that cdr is referring to died a death years ago, or so i've heard.

    btw - gsteinb and pcaddy's team are no longer affiliated with CRCA.

  17. #167
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    Thanks for the replies. I'm more than willing to get up for races once I get involved! I have no illusions that they will start later for me. It makes a lot of sense to be out that early, after all. With everyone coming out now that the weather has warmed up, I think that I will have to start getting up with the rest of the roadies as well to avoid the crowds. My love of sleep was balanced in the winter by the will to get out into the cold with very few others--I did zero trainer miles all winter and more miles this January, not even counting commuting, than I did in my heaviest month last year.

    I actually know someone through a non-cycling friend that rides Gimbels a lot. This thread has reminded me that I need to email him as we spoke about riding together a few weeks ago. Too bad he lives up in the Bronx and I am down in Brooklyn.

    I think that I will give the CRCA a shot as they have some kind of race clinic coming up in April. Putting a bunch of new riders into a simulated race sounds kind of like a crashfest. I am thinking that I may be a bit more advanced than that, but I'll probably swallow my pride and see what they have to offer. You've got to start somewhere.

  18. #168
    . botto's Avatar
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    swallow your pride.

  19. #169
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    I was hoping that someone would say "skip it and just enter a regular ol' cat 5 race," but if botto thinks that it is worth doing then I must oblige

  20. #170
    grilled cheesus aham23's Avatar
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    mama said knock you out.

    later.

  21. #171
    going roundy round wanders's Avatar
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    stay away from the olde english beforehand.
    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron View Post
    Damn.

  22. #172
    Senior Member NickDavid's Avatar
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    Our team is looking for some new guys who are either racing already or looking to start. Shoot me a PM for the details. We're located in Northern NJ.

  23. #173
    . botto's Avatar
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  24. #174
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    Awesome thread! A few questions:

    1) How long (minutes or miles) is your typical beginner level cat 5 crit? And before I get a dozen replies saying "it depends," I'm just looking for a ballpark range of what's typical.

    2) Are crits & circuit races limited to a number of riders?

    3) If you're on the edge of the peleton and not protected from the wind, is it considered poor etiquette to muscle your way in? How should one handle this?

    4) Alternatively, if you're the one on the inside and some guy wants to push in, presumably you want to avoid being boxed in, right? How should you handle it in this situation?

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushbikes View Post
    Awesome thread! A few questions:

    1) How long (minutes or miles) is your typical beginner level cat 5 crit? And before I get a dozen replies saying "it depends," I'm just looking for a ballpark range of what's typical.

    2) Are crits & circuit races limited to a number of riders?

    3) If you're on the edge of the peleton and not protected from the wind, is it considered poor etiquette to muscle your way in? How should one handle this?

    4) Alternatively, if you're the one on the inside and some guy wants to push in, presumably you want to avoid being boxed in, right? How should you handle it in this situation?
    5) If you want to stay at the front of the pack to avoid crashes, how do you also avoid pulling on the front? Or does everyone towards the front take a turn as part of race etiquette, in which case, how do you avoid being sent to the back of the pack when you peel off the front (back to question 3).

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