jjgli02

around 30 minutes
races are often needing more riders, rather than too many
yes. you put yourself on the outside, dont make someone else pay for your mistake. wait for a gap to open
let the move happen. making sudden moves causes accidents to happen


stay toward the front but not at the front. the other racers wont let you pull if youre not pulling hard enough, anyway

ericm979

Cat 5 races are limited to a field of 50 riders. Combined 4/5 races can sometimes be larger.
Here in Nor Cal many races fill their fields.. often there's a cat 5 A and B and even C. They're scored as separate races.

hshearer

Bridging gaps... share your wisdom please!

1) What are the clues you use when deciding whether a break-away is likely to be the winning break?

2) Assuming you're fairly well-matched to the others in your race, and you want to bridge up to a break-away that looks like it might stick, typically how much of a gap (in seconds) would it be likely you will succeed at bridging? When do you think you've let it get too far away?

3) What wind and terrain conditions favour successfully jumping across the gap?

4) How would I best use my strengths to bridge? (for example, I'm very tall, so I'll always be one of heaviest riders... call me a time-trialist, I guess... are downhills a good place for me to try to bridge? Where would a sprinter or hill climber try to bridge?)

5) any other advice for me?

Thanks!

shovelhd

Know your opposition. At least know some of the stronger teams in your area, and mark those moves.

This depends on a number of factors. In a road race, it could be minutes. In a criterium, it could be seconds. The earlier the better. You should know what you're capable of for 30", 1', 2', 5'. If you burn too many matches you'll be worthless once you catch them. How good is your jump? If all you can do is get 30m up then all you're doing is pulling the field up.

Whatever helps you helps the field, too. On the flats and down hills the field can go much faster than you. Attacking before a corner, or a turn or hill in a road race can make a difference. Out of sight, out of mind does come into play.

Downhills can work but the field can go faster than you if they want to. For someone like you, going on the flats may work best.

Just try it. Don't worry about making mistakes, it's how you learn.

MDcatV

6) intitiate the break so you're already on the right side of the bridge

hutsunuwu

Ok here is the deal, my first race is coming up in a week. A collegiate level D race. Two 14.5 mile laps for a total of 29 miles. Being that this is my first ever race I dont really know what to expect as far as rider strengths. I feel pretty strong myself and I am confident that I can compete but a lot of that depends on who I will be racing against. In your experience, what do you find the typical riders race levels to be at?

Also being new to racing I am not sure how to mentally prepare for something like this. I mean I figure that my best course of action is to act aggressively out of the gate and find a comfortable spot in the front of the pack. Hold that position until close to the end of the race and wait for the right opportunity to make my move. Is that a sound strategy for me? Or with the relatively short distance of the race, should I just attack and see who can keep up?

botto 

you've done fast group rides before, yes?

hutsunuwu

Yes sir

botto 

then, in the spirit of the first post in this thread: treat it as such.

hutsunuwu

Fair enough. I mean that much is obvious, but I still want more. I have gone through all the other threads and they all have some form of information that helps me but I guess I will just have to figure things out the same way everyone else does. Im just nervous and excited. I feel strong and I know what my body is capable of so I have this time to think up all sorts of crazy things about what might happen and how it might happen which leads me to seek out advice or tips from those more experienced than me in the hopes that they would tell me some grand secret that I already know.

I cant wait for this first race. I love bicycling and I cant think of anything more fun than a chance to compete in one of my favorite past times. Although I am riding TOSRV for the first time this year and I am looking forward to that as well. Not a race but it will be my first century, im riding it with my step-dad which should be a cool experience.

botto 

until you've done some racing, i have my doubts about that.

shovelhd

botto is a wise man.

hutsunuwu

A bit of an ass as well

botto 

truth is truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.

SushiJoe

botto knows racing. It's really less ass and more tough love for racing n00bs.

hutsunuwu

You might be right but you might just as well be wrong. One thing we have in common is neither of us knows how this is going to turn out. I dont need your tough love, I simply asked for your advice. But if your going to be an ass about it then I will go my marry way and let you arrogant pricks get back to comparing cock size.

SushiJoe

Hey, I've been here since 2005 and have never once talked about my Johnson. Just sayin'

shovelhd

You have two guys with hundreds of races under your belt trying to help you and you choose to sh*t on them. Nice start.

Let me spell it out for you. You admit that you have no clue on tactics but you trust your body. Well, you can't trust that, either. Group rides are one thing, races are another. Maybe you'll be in a field of freds and you'll ride off the front to victory. That would be great. You could also be in for one of the toughest things you've ever done in your life. You have no way of predicting how your body is going to react to attacks, pressure, dicey situations.

You should have very simple goals for this, your first race.

Stay upright.
Don't make any sketchy moves.
Don't take out any other riders.
Listen, watch, and learn.
Finish in the field.

If you feel strong enough to go off the front, do it. Otherwise, see above.

SushiJoe

This. ^^

echappist

exactly.

Case in point: there are many so called hill-climbing all stars who can get consistent top 10's and top 5's in a hill climb time trial. Given this fact, it's safe to say that they are strong. You'd think they'll do quite well in races, but not so. Some finish in the back of the pack because they are afraid to ride in packs, others actually get gapped and dropped. The courses are neither demanding nor technical, but their physical abilities don't translate into racing success.

Cycling is not a sport for which physical strength correlates well with results: running is.

SushiJoe

Running is hell.

ridethatbike

That and Obi-Wan are my only hope.

carpediemracing 

+ a bazillion. If cycling was such a sport, I'd be doing Judo or playing violin.

Bridging gaps:
- 10 seconds, rule of thumb for normal people, for a solo bridge. To give you an idea of what it takes to do a 30 second bridge, a Cat 3 teammate spent most of a crit bridging a 30 second gap. He upgraded to Cat 2 and got second at Battenkill in his first race as a 2, so he's strong. He also runs - 6:30 miles for 10k is "taking it easy" for him, so he has a big engine.
- flat/tailwind sections are good for flatter courses; you help the others less. You can get a gap here and then proceed into headwind sections with a gap.
- hills, if you have short punchy power (most "fit" racers don't, because typically "fitness" is measured in minutes, not seconds), you can close a huge gap in a short period of time. However you'll be deep in the red at that point.

Some tips in video:
Included: leadout (35 mph - my heart rate drops 4 or 5 bpm during the leadout, i.e. I was recovering); big attack to get to a developing break (up the hill through the field, illustrates how fast you can make a difference on a hill); short bridge at beginning; final sprint shows gap closeable between slow and fast riders (you can see the gap is 100-150 meters with less than half a lap to go).

Included: bridging (I follow someone); the fact that bridging requires speed (group going 28 or so, therefore we have to go 30-32 mph); importance of staying on wheels, especially responding immediately to any gaps.

A gap is more than a foot for every 10 mph. At 20 mph I consider 2.5 feet to be a gap that should be closed. 2 feet is kind of spacious at 20 mph. At 30 mph, 3 feet is big but manageable, but if you know the rider or it's pretty much single file, I think 3-4 inches per 10 mph is normal after 20 mph. So 6-8" at 30 mph is standard and preferred. I am unhappy if the gap in front of me is 2 feet at 30 mph. This is why a less-fit rider can survive in a race. More fit riders waste a tremendous amount of energy sitting a foot or two more off of a wheel, but they can do it because they're stronger. I wasted a lot of energy when I was stronger too, even though I knew I was wasting it.

Add a foot or two per 10 mph for descents. At 50 mph I prefer to stay 5-8 feet off the next wheel, sometimes as much as 20-30 feet (depending on pack density, conditions, knowledge of road).

Finally, "marry" is what you do. "Merry" is a mood thing. Probably auto-correct/spell but still.

zzzwillzzz

correct.

zzzwillzzz

true. but this is not a 50%/50% decision, it's more like 99%/1%, the odds always favor the house and we're the house, welcome to vegas, baby.