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Old 01-30-08, 02:17 PM   #1
TCR
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Would you lie about your placing in a bike race? (a little long)

Did a RR Sunday in absolute brutal conditions - wind, rain, fog, etc. There were lots of DNS and DNF. I came in 20th with a time of 2:15:57. A certain individual, who I won't outright name but works as the sales manager at the lbs hosting the race, got dropped less than 5 miles into the race. I know this because I was riding next to him at the back of the pack from the start, listening to him huff and puff. As soon as the pack got warmed up and picked up the pace he was shelled off the back. I wouldn't have noticed this except the day before I was in his bike shop buying gloves and talking to him about the course. I felt bad for him as we left him in the distance because he seemed like a nice guy. I was even tempted to put my hand on his back to help him along a little but I didn't want to get penalized or offend the guy because I was helping him.

Anyway, to make this short, he got credited with a time of 2:04:15 and coming in 10th, which is absolutely impossible considering when and how he was dropped. I emailed the head judge and she even called him at his bike shop and asked him if he finished the whole course. He said he did and since they had no officials spotting him turning around early they can't do anything. Well it was pouring rain, windy, and foggy - I could have stripped off all my clothes and rode half the course naked and the officials wouldn't have noticed.

I realize this isn't a big deal but it really irks me that a fellow cyclist, someone who I respected the day before, would outright lie about something like this. It also drops me down a spot in the GC, 21st instead of 20th.

I'm tempted to call this guy at his bike shop and ask him what gives but I'm sure he'd just deny it and it wouldn't solve anything.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:20 PM   #2
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His loss.

Did 20th pay? cause if not, quit yer *****in
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Old 01-30-08, 02:21 PM   #3
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Why would anyone do that? That's idiotic.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:21 PM   #4
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I would never do it but it amazes at the people out there that have no problem doing it. I figure if they can live with it so can I. Only reason I would be upset would be if it would knock me out of upgrade points, which it doesn't do in this case.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:24 PM   #5
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In a race this past year, I made a new friend during the neutral roll-out. In the final sprint, I saw him go past me -- he had a very distinctive frame. When they posted results and handed out medals, they had me placed ahead of him. We spoke to the Race Director, who didn't want to be bothered. Since there were no points nor money at stake, my friend and I simply swapped medals and had a little chuckle over all of it. I didn't want the better medal, since I had not earned it.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:25 PM   #6
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His loss.

Did 20th pay? cause if not, quit yer *****in
No, it didn't pay but it's taking upgrade points away from the guy who actually finished 10th in the RR.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:26 PM   #7
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Scoring is so screwy at some races. The pack I was in got lapped by about 5 guys in a crit I did. After the finish I look at the results and I saw that I was like 20th, but was ahead of some of the guys that had lapped us. I told the official, about it, and pointed out everybody in our group that I could remember. For some reason, they slid everybody I named down, except me, so I moved into like 12th place, when I should have been like 30th.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:27 PM   #8
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People cheat on their taxes, at cards, on exams, spouses and yes, even at bike racing.

Does it make it okay? No. Unavoidable? Yes.
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Old 01-30-08, 02:33 PM   #9
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Yeah, can't really blame the officials for not seeing anything. The first 2/3 of that race were a giant ****storm.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:06 PM   #10
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In a race last year, I was dropped along with a group of ten or so. I finished ahead of the others; however, in the final results, I was behind the other ten riders. Does it matter? Not really. If you lose out on upgrade points then I can see why it would be worth making a complaint.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:08 PM   #11
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I once rode a points race on the track, I think I was 2nd and 3rd in the first 2, then 1st the 2nd last sprint, then kept going and almost lapped the field. I know that I finished in the first 4 places a few times.

I ended up in about 9th place as I don't think any of my points were given to me. Some guys spoke up and they then worked out I was in 4th or so. The guy who claimed 3rd was 1 lap down I think. We had a good laugh about it in the car park later on.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:15 PM   #12
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Which number was he, and what was he wearing? I watcheda lot of people slowly climb away from me as a I was nursing my flat, and pass by as I was stopped at the top, I could probably say whether or not he passed by me...
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Old 01-30-08, 03:23 PM   #13
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Once the protest period is over, results are official. So regardless, it's all over but the shouting.

Lots of times, I dont even check my results if I know I'm not in the $$, or did leadout duty, or whatever. I'm sure that I've been mis-placed lots in those circumstances, maybe same for your bikeshop buddy.

Are you certain he was dropped? There have been times in races where I've been surprised to see someone that I was sure got shelled or quit after a couple of hrs. racing, in good weather conditions, let alone poor ones like you describe.

Just pointing out some realities of racing that result in people being placed erroneously.

Storytime:

2 years ago a buddy and I did what is called the DC Velo 7 am group ride in Wash DC. It was same day as a road race in Charlottesville, VA about 3+-ish hrs. away. Both buddy and myself were registered for the race, but decided we didnt feel like taking the drive. When the results were posted, my buddy somehow managed to finish 13th, even though he was 3+hrs. away from the race.

Results errors, they happen, that's racin'.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:27 PM   #14
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Why would anyone do that? That's idiotic.
So is cheating at golf. People do it daily. That's why I won't play in non-flighted handicap events. Every time, in the past, some guy with a 15 handicap "shoots the round of his life" and gets a 75, 60 handicap. Once, when mine was 7 I figured I'd have to have shot 65 straight up before strokes to get into the hunt. I told the guy, "If I could shoot an f'n 65 I wouldn't be playing here. I'd be on the gd PGA Tour."

People steal stuff from the office...

The morale standards are not what they used to be.

If it was me, I'd call him on it. I've seen it done at my golf club. Really nice to get caught cheating...hard to get a game after that.

Frankly, I've never seen a cheater at a bike race...but the races I was in were heavily officiated and controlled.

Send him a picture of Rosie Ruiz.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:30 PM   #15
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So now you know about this guy's integrity. Consider a lesson learned and re-consider any business you plan to do with him. You could also have a polite and discreet chat with him using open ended, non accusatory questions. The last part is more about your character, however.
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Old 01-30-08, 03:45 PM   #16
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Oh yeah, something like that happened at Everest Challenge. There was a guy that finished a little behind me on the first day, but he was struggling to keep my wheel and he just fell apart on the last mile. On the second day I dropped him easily on the first climb, but somehow ended up passing him again later in the day (I hadn't stopped). He didn't speak much English, but I asked if he did the whole thing and he said he did. There is no way he could have gotten back ahead of me!
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Old 01-30-08, 03:52 PM   #17
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umd, sounds like a episode of the Twilight Zone!
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Old 01-30-08, 04:15 PM   #18
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It looks like he finished DFL in both the crit and TT too. His time in the crit (30:02) is over 5 minutes minutes off the next place above him (24:45), and 6 minutes from the finish (24:02), so I assume he got pulled and received a calculated time. His time in the TT was 34:36, over 3 minutes back from the next slowest, 34:36.

Compare and contrast to the 11th place man in the RR, who got 11th in the TT with a time of 26:52, and 3rd in the crit.
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Old 01-30-08, 04:41 PM   #19
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Found a pic of him from the crit. From the timestamps on the pics, it looks like he got dropped on the fourth lap.


One of you too (before the race):


I will go out on a limb and say that it is not possible that he placed 10th in the RR, and I certainly didn't see him pass me when I was stopped. I doubt that he was complicit in the mistiming though, he probably dropped out and left and never even saw the results (the took several hours to be posted)

Last edited by umd; 01-30-08 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 01-30-08, 04:56 PM   #20
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We have the same frame (yellow TCR)! Are those the Michelin Pro2 tires?
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Old 01-30-08, 05:12 PM   #21
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he knows what his time is
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Old 01-30-08, 05:33 PM   #22
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LOL at posting his pic

also I like that unattached kit
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Old 01-30-08, 05:40 PM   #23
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LOL at posting his pic
a bridge too far, if you ask me.

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also I like that unattached kit
-1

just sayin'
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Old 01-30-08, 05:46 PM   #24
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Here's the best cheating bike racer story of my career:

We're in the 35+ vets race in Prospect Park, Brooklyn, NY. This guy Earl (don't know his last name) is off the front alone by several hundred meters. The Cat 1/2/3 race is catching us so the officials bark at us to pull over and our race is neutralized while the other peloton passes. Everybody relaxes, and then, in front of like 100 witnesses, Earl jumps on the back of the passing 1/2/3 field. He drafts them a couple of laps to the end, backs off and "solo's" in. Of course he gets DQ'd, there were like 100 witnesses to this blatant cheat. Yet to this day he denies he did anything wrong. At the time he must have been 48 years old, now he's over 60, so I don't think he races anymore, but every now and then we see him on the Nyack Ride.

Earl's a nice, guy, he's a pisser, but he's a cheater too. Oh well.
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Old 01-30-08, 05:55 PM   #25
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Found a pic of him from the crit. From the timestamps on the pics, it looks like he got dropped on the fourth lap.
Are you sure that isn't some recreational rider that snuck onto the course?
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