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Thread: P..P..Position?

  1. #1
    Carbon Fiber Bones elgalad's Avatar
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    P..P..Position?

    Ok, so I've been playing around with my position on the TT bike, trying to get the best tradeoff between power and aerodynamics, and I want to try out the 'Praying Landis' position, but I'm not 100% certain of the UCI rules on position.

    Is it still legal to run the position, provided I keep the tip of the aerobars below the height of the saddle?

    Here in Oz all races are governed by the UCI rules, so I want to make sure it's legal before I spend the time making adjustments and tests.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: I can post some pictures up later tonight when I get home.
    Last edited by elgalad; 02-18-08 at 09:59 PM.
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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    I have posted this a bunch of times nd might eventually make a sticky out of it. The UCI rules are that the forearms must be parallel to the ground when in position. No Praying Flandis position will be allowed in UCI events until they decide to change their minds again.

    Thank you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member eskimo85's Avatar
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    Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!

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    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo85 View Post
    Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!
    But then cyclists on smaller teams with smaller budgets are at a disadvantage!

    That's how the argument goes, anyway. I think. Oh no wait, it's because the Flandis position is "unstable" and "unsafe". The TT rider might take out... himself? or a spectator?
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  5. #5
    Quarq shill cslone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo85 View Post
    Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!
    Go be the bike leg of a triathlon relay if you want exotic!
    FS: Fuji SL1 frameset, 55.5cm toptube, excellent condition.

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    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    It's not about being unstable. In fact, according to their explaination, it is likely to be more stable. The argument is that somehow, once the forearms are not parallel, your elbows are being supported. I have cut and pasted the below from my post to a thread on the PelotonEast Website.


    Well, here it is, the response I got from the head guru at the UCI.

    Dear Sir,
    I receive your message via our UCI office.
    Our technical regulation about time trial competions is applicable since 7
    years. Our message of this year is only a focusing. There is not a new rule.

    According to our article 1.3.023 about time trial competitions, an extension
    may be added to the classical steering system.
    The meaning of the rule is that the forearm must be horizontal (see shema -
    structure 1b -). In fact, that goes without saying by reason that we have
    only 3 points of support authorized (foot, seat and hands). If the forearm
    is not horizontal we have an other point of support.
    The shape of the bar extension is generally horizontal with an ending hand
    extension (handle). From aerodynamic point of view the full horizontal bar
    extension is the best but it is a constraint from physiology point of view.
    It is the reason why the ending bar extension (handle) is free.
    In other words, the shape of the bar extension is correct if the forearm is
    horizontal (except the handle). Now, of course, we find different bar
    extension which are not always strictly horizontal. It is not a major
    problem if, in fine, the forearm is horizontal.

    However, the translation of our technical regulation from the French text is
    not very good. The English text 1.3.023 - A support for the elbows or
    forearms is permitted - is wrong. The French text is : Un repose-coudes ou
    avant-bras est autorisé. It is very different. The correction has been
    requested in march and will be actual on the next version of our technical
    regulation.

    Please do not hesitate to contact me for more informations.
    Regards,

    jean wauthier
    Conseiller technique
    Technical advisor
    Unité matériel & équipement
    Union Cycliste Internationale
    CH-1860 Aigle
    So there you have it. Keep the forearms more or less horizontal (regardless of hand position) and you are legal.

    I personally still disagree with the hairsplitting that somehow elbow pads are not supportive in the horizontal position and they are in a different position (sorry to say, but most of my upper body weight is FIRMLY resting on the elbow pads), but the rules are there, and pretty clear. Bars other than straight bars ARE legal.

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    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
    Well, here it is, the response I got from the head guru at the UCI.
    Kind of like the clown that gets to drive the car at the circus huh...

    It seems pretty obvious that Jean Wauthier has never been anywhere near a TT bike much less ridden one.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator
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    My God, I can't believe the hair splitting.

    I think it's up to someone to prove that they can TT with the hands higher than the elbows without putting as much weight on the elbows as the hands. I'm not saying it'll be faster, I'm just saying it needs to be proved possible. Then all these pros can go back to the hands higher bit.

    Or they need to allow the elbow to rest somewhere on a TT bike.

    cdr

  9. #9
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    Interestingly, the translation of the Frech text that Wauthier provides is:
    "Rest-elbows or front armlever is authorized"
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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  10. #10
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
    My God, I can't believe the hair splitting.



    cdr
    They have a long history of it. The Flying Scotsman movie is pretty funny in its characterization of the UCI.

  11. #11
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
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    ^^ accurate, too.
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
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