Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-18-08, 10:28 PM   #1
elgalad
Carbon Fiber Bones
Thread Starter
 
elgalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Bikes: '07 Scott Speedster S30
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
P..P..Position?

Ok, so I've been playing around with my position on the TT bike, trying to get the best tradeoff between power and aerodynamics, and I want to try out the 'Praying Landis' position, but I'm not 100% certain of the UCI rules on position.

Is it still legal to run the position, provided I keep the tip of the aerobars below the height of the saddle?

Here in Oz all races are governed by the UCI rules, so I want to make sure it's legal before I spend the time making adjustments and tests.

Thanks!

EDIT: I can post some pictures up later tonight when I get home.

Last edited by elgalad; 02-18-08 at 10:59 PM.
elgalad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-08, 11:16 PM   #2
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Bikes:
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have posted this a bunch of times nd might eventually make a sticky out of it. The UCI rules are that the forearms must be parallel to the ground when in position. No Praying Flandis position will be allowed in UCI events until they decide to change their minds again.

Thank you.
DrWJODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 08:55 AM   #3
eskimo85
Senior Member
 
eskimo85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago
Bikes: giant comp2 tcr, giant xtc
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!
eskimo85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 09:01 AM   #4
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimo85 View Post
Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!
But then cyclists on smaller teams with smaller budgets are at a disadvantage!

That's how the argument goes, anyway. I think. Oh no wait, it's because the Flandis position is "unstable" and "unsafe". The TT rider might take out... himself? or a spectator?
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 09:30 AM   #5
cslone
Quarq shill
 
cslone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Posts: 3,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimo85 View Post
Rediculously stupid rule. TT's should be exotic and about new technology, let them race. Different bikes, different frames, lets see what works!
Go be the bike leg of a triathlon relay if you want exotic!
cslone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 12:16 PM   #6
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Bikes:
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's not about being unstable. In fact, according to their explaination, it is likely to be more stable. The argument is that somehow, once the forearms are not parallel, your elbows are being supported. I have cut and pasted the below from my post to a thread on the PelotonEast Website.


Well, here it is, the response I got from the head guru at the UCI.

Quote:
Dear Sir,
I receive your message via our UCI office.
Our technical regulation about time trial competions is applicable since 7
years. Our message of this year is only a focusing. There is not a new rule.

According to our article 1.3.023 about time trial competitions, an extension
may be added to the classical steering system.
The meaning of the rule is that the forearm must be horizontal (see shema -
structure 1b -). In fact, that goes without saying by reason that we have
only 3 points of support authorized (foot, seat and hands). If the forearm
is not horizontal we have an other point of support.
The shape of the bar extension is generally horizontal with an ending hand
extension (handle). From aerodynamic point of view the full horizontal bar
extension is the best but it is a constraint from physiology point of view.
It is the reason why the ending bar extension (handle) is free.
In other words, the shape of the bar extension is correct if the forearm is
horizontal (except the handle). Now, of course, we find different bar
extension which are not always strictly horizontal. It is not a major
problem if, in fine, the forearm is horizontal.

However, the translation of our technical regulation from the French text is
not very good. The English text 1.3.023 - A support for the elbows or
forearms is permitted - is wrong. The French text is : Un repose-coudes ou
avant-bras est autorisé. It is very different. The correction has been
requested in march and will be actual on the next version of our technical
regulation.

Please do not hesitate to contact me for more informations.
Regards,

jean wauthier
Conseiller technique
Technical advisor
Unité matériel & équipement
Union Cycliste Internationale
CH-1860 Aigle
So there you have it. Keep the forearms more or less horizontal (regardless of hand position) and you are legal.

I personally still disagree with the hairsplitting that somehow elbow pads are not supportive in the horizontal position and they are in a different position (sorry to say, but most of my upper body weight is FIRMLY resting on the elbow pads), but the rules are there, and pretty clear. Bars other than straight bars ARE legal.
DrWJODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 12:32 PM   #7
bvfrompc
Senior Member
 
bvfrompc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
Well, here it is, the response I got from the head guru at the UCI.
Kind of like the clown that gets to drive the car at the circus huh...

It seems pretty obvious that Jean Wauthier has never been anywhere near a TT bike much less ridden one.
bvfrompc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 12:57 PM   #8
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
My God, I can't believe the hair splitting.

I think it's up to someone to prove that they can TT with the hands higher than the elbows without putting as much weight on the elbows as the hands. I'm not saying it'll be faster, I'm just saying it needs to be proved possible. Then all these pros can go back to the hands higher bit.

Or they need to allow the elbow to rest somewhere on a TT bike.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 01:23 PM   #9
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Interestingly, the translation of the Frech text that Wauthier provides is:
"Rest-elbows or front armlever is authorized"
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 02:31 PM   #10
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,112
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
My God, I can't believe the hair splitting.



cdr
They have a long history of it. The Flying Scotsman movie is pretty funny in its characterization of the UCI.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 02:38 PM   #11
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
^^ accurate, too.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 AM.