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Thread: Did WRI today.

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    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Did WRI today.

    That's Water-Rockets-Intervals.

    Up until now I've been doing AC (zone 6) workouts straight out of Allen and Coggan's book; if anything, I think they're maybe a little too easy.

    So since I was short on time this morning, decided to do the WRI. Started as hard as I could for 15 seconds, sat down, and basically tried to hang on until the PT said one minute.

    Set a new one-minute power record on the first one - 591 watts (previous best, August or so last year, 551).

    The rest - not so good- came in between 500 and 520 watts. Still need to work on it.

    All in all a pretty good quick workout. Thanks WR.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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    How many sets did you do? And with what rest?

    And I am asking because I am curious. I should probably incorporate some of that in my workouts.
    Last edited by calhoun1; 03-04-08 at 07:40 AM.
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    With the Quarg open source, Linux driven power meter, I'm thinking we could even incorporate a WRI session, so it would show up as WRI on the display

    The geek in me wants one so badly, but the rational side (SO, wife, finance minister) asks, with what money?
    Gelato aficionado.

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    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calhoun1 View Post
    How many sets did you do? And with what rest?
    I did only six, with between 2-3 minutes rest. If I were to design the workout again I'd probably try to do eight to ten with two minutes rest.

    EDIT: on second thought, considering the theory behind the workout, You should probably rest more, as WR recommends.
    Last edited by ElJamoquio; 06-29-08 at 07:45 PM.
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    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    With the Quarg open source, Linux driven power meter, I'm thinking we could even incorporate a WRI session, so it would show up as WRI on the display

    The geek in me wants one so badly, but the rational side (SO, wife, finance minister) asks, with what money?
    I had no idea that the Quarg stuff was going to be (is?) open source. I almost want to buy one so I can write my own software. Do you have any links/details?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    First, you guys need to know how to spell it before you can search for it: Quarq

    http://www.quarq.us/
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    First, you guys need to know how to spell it before you can search for it: Quarq

    http://www.quarq.us/
    ouch. but thanks. I was looking at the post above mine. Error propagation FTW.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    ouch. but thanks. I was looking at the post above mine. Error propagation FTW.
    My bad... I forgot the smilie.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    I'm not worthy of the Quarg, I meant Quarq
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    With the Quarg open source, Linux driven power meter, I'm thinking we could even incorporate a WRI session, so it would show up as WRI on the display

    The geek in me wants one so badly, but the rational side (SO, wife, finance minister) asks, with what money?
    total thread hijack - just got the March email from them and it has been delayed until late April. a good update, however, including an appearance from Hunter Allen on their blog

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    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    Up until now I've been doing AC (zone 6) workouts straight out of Allen and Coggan's book; if anything, I think they're maybe a little too easy.
    I agree that 1-2 min at level 6 is pretty easy and leaves me feeling like I could do more. However, that is not always - or even usually- a bad thing. The important thing to question is whether or not it is sufficient to induce adaptation… all without creating needless fatigue. Just like doing sub-threshold work (say 0.85-0.95) should increase FTP, zone 6 should train AWC, right?

    But I know it can be hard to put faith in the zones when you are feeling really good and want to go harder; but apparently “breakthrough” workouts are highly taxing and should only be done rarely.

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    I agree that 1-2 min at level 6 is pretty easy and leaves me feeling like I could do more.
    Wow, I find this hard to believe since the effort should yield an IF of ~121% of FTP (duration =30s to 3 minutes) according to the CyclingPeaks 411 web page.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    I'm talking about the workout prescribed by A&C. From memory I think it's ~140% of FTP (I could be wrong), which puts me at not-very-far above VO2.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer View Post
    Wow, I find this hard to believe since the effort should yield an IF of ~121% of FTP (duration =30s to 3 minutes) according to the CyclingPeaks 411 web page.
    Easy is relative.

    My zone targets are based off MAP (MAP=388W) not FTP (~280ish)

    1: 180
    2: 220
    3: 250
    4: 270
    5: 300
    6: 370 (FTP based IF=1.32)
    7: >500

    1min at 370 is a joke, 2min is ok hard, but I can do 400W for 2:15 if I dig into the suitcase of courage.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    That's Water-Rockets-Intervals.

    Up until now I've been doing AC (zone 6) workouts straight out of Allen and Coggan's book; if anything, I think they're maybe a little too easy.

    So since I was short on time this morning, decided to do the WRI. Started as hard as I could for 15 seconds, sat down, and basically tried to hang on until the PT said one minute.

    Set a new one-minute power record on the first one - 591 watts (previous best, August or so last year, 551).

    The rest - not so good- came in between 500 and 520 watts. Still need to work on it.

    All in all a pretty good quick workout. Thanks WR.
    I'm a little late getting into this thread -- I was expecting a race report for some regional race I hadn't heard of!

    Pretty crazy looking at the power profile from one of those, huh? It's like cliff followed by a ski slope for me.

    They're pretty tough. A friend decided to do these with me last week, and it was his first time ever doing a 1-minute interval. After his fourth one, he started cramping so badly that he couldn't race this weekend due to a calf pull

    So, yeah, be careful with these. If you're used to the effort, you'll avoid injury, but I only do these every two weeks at this point (I used to do them weekly - just not productive).

    Regarding the Quarq, I plan to write some code for it using an emulator. I'll probably never buy one, but it's too attractive to not write code for it. I guess that means I might start off writing an emulator. I'll have to see how the free time goes. At the very least, it would be nice to have the TrainingPeaks numbers in there (TSS, IF, NP). Distance matching power pacing would be cool too (last time on this hill, at this point, you were 10W lower).

    I wonder if the Quarq could have audio I could see some yelling during a WRI set being useful as it detects that power drop-off.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    Easy is relative.

    My zones targets are based off MAP (MAP=388W) not FTP (~280ish)

    1: 180
    2: 220
    3: 250
    4: 270
    5: 300
    6: 370 (FTP based IF=1.32)
    7: >500

    1min at 370 is a joke, 2min is ok hard, but I can do 400W for 2:15 if dig into the suitcase of courage.
    Yeah, basing these anaerobic zones off of FTP is just silly for an NP-Buster type like myself. My WKO AC zone is 406W+, but my 1m power is 740W. Come. On.

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    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    I wonder if the Quarq could have audio I could see some yelling during a WRI set being useful as it detects that power drop-off.


    /me starts sketching out an ANT+Sport protocol audio adapter. This device could be too much fun for a geek. Less cycling, more developing is probably not good for training.

    *Go faster you lazy ******! You bought me for such a lame workout? I'll show you what real PAIN means, Private Pile!*
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    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    I could see some yelling during a WRI set being useful as it detects that power drop-off.
    My HRM from ~1999 does this. OK, it's beeping, not yelling, but why don't PT's do this?
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    My HRM from ~1999 does this. OK, it's beeping, not yelling, but why don't PT's do this?
    I think I did all of one workout before I turned that annoying feature off.

    You architects should design something useful; like a wireless rectal thermometer, or a saddle that delivers electric shocks to the taint...


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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    Set a new one-minute power record on the first one - 591 watts (previous best, August or so last year, 551).
    I'm not doing 1min intervals yet, but I when I was last year my experience went like this:

    - seated - 500w
    - WRI-style (explode standing then fight the fade) - 550w
    - up a local 8% hill standing all the way - 600w

    So while WR's technique gave me about 50 more watts, doing them uphill gave me 100 more. (These numbers were my goals for 8 repetitions -- a single all-out effort was about 100w higher in each case). My (uninformed) hypothesis was that standing all they way freed more lactate into the bloodstream, as it got my arms and upper body into the action, which therefore gave me a bigger AWC.

    WR - ever tried doing the efforts on a significant incline? I just happen to have a climb up from a local reservoir that takes me just about exactly a minute.
    At least I offer my own disaster.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curveship View Post
    I'm not doing 1min intervals yet, but I when I was last year my experience went like this:

    - seated - 500w
    - WRI-style (explode standing then fight the fade) - 550w
    - up a local 8% hill standing all the way - 600w

    So while WR's technique gave me about 50 more watts, doing them uphill gave me 100 more. (These numbers were my goals for 8 repetitions -- a single all-out effort was about 100w higher in each case). My (uninformed) hypothesis was that standing all they way freed more lactate into the bloodstream, as it got my arms and upper body into the action, which therefore gave me a bigger AWC.

    WR - ever tried doing the efforts on a significant incline? I just happen to have a climb up from a local reservoir that takes me just about exactly a minute.
    I do 90% of these on a hill. My 1m record is on a 17% hill.

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    I attempted some of these today. Ended up doing only 5. Have no powermeter so I don't have wattage. I also was only able to hold the pace at a most of 45seconds. I think I just was putting out too much early and dieing at the end.

    Gotta try it to get better at it. Gotta learn what my body can do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    Easy is relative.

    My zone targets are based off MAP (MAP=388W) not FTP (~280ish)

    1: 180
    2: 220
    3: 250
    4: 270
    5: 300
    6: 370 (FTP based IF=1.32)
    7: >500

    1min at 370 is a joke, 2min is ok hard, but I can do 400W for 2:15 if I dig into the suitcase of courage.
    I believe ~135% FTP is the suggestion for 2' intervals. Try about 6 of those @ ~380 w.

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    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calhoun1 View Post
    I attempted some of these today. Ended up doing only 5. Have no powermeter so I don't have wattage. I also was only able to hold the pace at a most of 45seconds. I think I just was putting out too much early and dieing at the end.

    Gotta try it to get better at it. Gotta learn what my body can do.
    That failure at 45s is a result of going out too hard, and it's a good thing. If you think you're going out too hard, go out harder next time. Try to break something, and completely ignore the other 50 seconds of your interval. You bury yourself completely, as fast as you can, then just keep pulling teeth until the minute is up. It's horrible, but it has really worked for me.

    Sometimes I only get 5 of these in, and I've never gotten more than 7. Six is most common, but the 6th is sometimes a joke.

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