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Old 03-15-08, 03:16 PM   #1
Mr. T.
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Which is slower? ...

Men's Cat 5 or Mens Masters 30+ Cat4/5?

Also if a race is labeled Men's Cat 5/Citizens how is that different than Cat 5?

I'm 41 and looking for the slowest first race I can find
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Old 03-15-08, 05:51 PM   #2
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Men's Cat 5 or Mens Masters 30+ Cat4/5?

Also if a race is labeled Men's Cat 5/Citizens how is that different than Cat 5?

I'm 41 and looking for the slowest first race I can find
I would think the straight cat 5 would be slower, since in the 4/5 race you could have cat 4's about to upgrade to 3.
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Old 03-15-08, 05:55 PM   #3
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cat 5. the masters race will probably be the fastest of those categories you listed.
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Old 03-15-08, 06:13 PM   #4
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Men's Cat 5 or Mens Masters 30+ Cat4/5?

Also if a race is labeled Men's Cat 5/Citizens how is that different than Cat 5?

I'm 41 and looking for the slowest first race I can find
A Men's Cat 5 race....everyone has a cycling license.
A Men's Cat 5/Citizens...everyone just want's to race...some people will be licensed as a cat 5. Others will just register for the race and not be a member of USAC.
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Old 03-15-08, 06:19 PM   #5
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cat 5. the masters race will probably be the fastest of those categories you listed.
It's actually 4s and 5s, and that will be much faster than the 5s.
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Old 03-15-08, 07:09 PM   #6
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A Men's Cat 5 race....everyone has a cycling license.
A Men's Cat 5/Citizens...everyone just want's to race...some people will be licensed as a cat 5. Others will just register for the race and not be a member of USAC.
Everyone who races must hold a license. That can either be an annual or a one-day. I have no idea what a citizen racer is and neither does USAC since the term never appears in the rule book.
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Old 03-15-08, 07:12 PM   #7
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Everyone who races must hold a license. That can either be an annual or a one-day. I have no idea what a citizen racer is and neither does USAC since the term never appears in the rule book.
My understanding is that it is an antiquated term and just used in reference to racers that can show up with no experience and race on a one day license, i.e. cat 5.
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Old 03-15-08, 08:25 PM   #8
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My understanding is that it is an antiquated term and just used in reference to racers that can show up with no experience and race on a one day license, i.e. cat 5.
That fits me to a tee. I guess I'll go for the Cat 5.

Does USAC distinguish between Mens CAT 5 and Mens Masters Cat 5? In other words, are these two different categories or is a CAT 5 a CAT 5 and Masters just means you are an old CAT 5?
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Old 03-15-08, 08:40 PM   #9
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That fits me to a tee. I guess I'll go for the Cat 5.

Does USAC distinguish between Mens CAT 5 and Mens Masters Cat 5? In other words, are these two different categories or is a CAT 5 a CAT 5 and Masters just means you are an old CAT 5?
Like me, you will be both a Cat 5 and a Masters 40+. Some Masters races will not allow Cat 5s.

My first race was a Cat 4/5 crit and 10 minutes after finishing I was invited to join the Masters race. The difference is huge. I was shelled in the Masters race 14 minutes into it and it took that long because the "race" didn't start until the field got lapped by a break. I was blown about 1 minute after that.

They were both a blast.
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Old 03-15-08, 08:44 PM   #10
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No, you have a racing age and a discipline category on your license (road 5, track 5, cyclocross 5). Some events allow certain categories to race in an age group, but your category is your category.

I am a Cat 3, but I never race 3s in road races -- just M35+ (I prefer the strategy and tactics of the Cat 2s who also race M35+). I'm considering doing some crits as a Cat 3 though... since I have some more teammates there and we could really tear some s&^t up.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:04 PM   #11
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No, you have a racing age and a discipline category on your license (road 5, track 5, cyclocross 5). Some events allow certain categories to race in an age group, but your category is your category.
So, if your category is your category (which I interpret to mean you are at a certain level of racing regardless of age), what's the point of having a Masters 30+, 35+, 40+ race?
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Old 03-15-08, 09:18 PM   #12
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Well, age-based racing is different than skill-based. Even Cat 4/5 vs Cat 4/5 35+ are very different. The pace is smoother in M35+, even if it is faster overall. Most of the guys have kids at home, and jobs, and won't take as many stupid risks (most, not all).

For myself, I could go get my points in Cat 3 and work towards racing Cat 2, but I have no desire to race the distances of P/1/2. As it is, a typical P/1/2 race in my area will be close to 100 miles. Cat 3, around 75. The M35+ races are 40-45 miles. The M35+ races are harder and faster than the Cat 3 races in general, but the distance is short enough that I can get by on much less volume.

So, I get to race with Cat 2s (who usually win), and I get to see P/1/2 level strategy and teamwork play out, and I get to participate in that. I also get to coach my kid's soccer team, do all my own home improvement work, and do all my training at lunch and during my short commute.

If I go race Cat 3, I need to add at least an hour/week for volume, then when I upgrade to Cat 2, I have to add another 3-5 hours/week, and really just vanish from the rest of my life.

So, I'd rather race in a group that's just like the mini P/1/2s and not worry about my upgrade points.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:26 PM   #13
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Everyone who races must hold a license. That can either be an annual or a one-day. I have no idea what a citizen racer is and neither does USAC since the term never appears in the rule book.
They used to. Before the creation of the 1 day license you could mix cat 5 with "public" which even further back was called "citizens". These days it's just by category and age bracket, and everyone has a license, either an annual or a 1 day. It's the equivalent of the 1 day.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:27 PM   #14
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So, I'd rather race in a group that's just like the mini P/1/2s and not worry about my upgrade points.
HTFU you sandbagging wussy
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Old 03-15-08, 09:40 PM   #15
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HTFU you sandbagging wussy
I'm the king of sprinting for 15th. I'll reconsider the sandbagging when I start to make it into the break that always gets away in these races. It's really impressive how it always happens. I will join them. I will...
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Old 03-16-08, 09:30 AM   #16
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"Everyone who races must hold a license. That can either be an annual or a one-day. I have no idea what a citizen racer is and neither does USAC since the term never appears in the rule book. "

Though many promoters call the one-day license 'citizen', I have raced citizen without a license. The promoter can do what he wants. - TF

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Old 03-16-08, 09:45 AM   #17
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"They used to. Before the creation of the 1 day license you could mix cat 5 with "public" which even further back was called "citizens". These days it's just by category and age bracket, and everyone has a license, either an annual or a 1 day. It's the equivalent of the 1 day."

I've been in races within the last few years where everyone paid the registration fee and you could race if:

-it said Road Cat5 on your annual license,
-you paid for a 1-day license (Cat5) or
-you signed up as 'Citizen'.

The only difference was that if a Citizen placed, they would not get any prize money.

TF
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Old 03-16-08, 09:54 AM   #18
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The masters race will be faster probably. But statistically it will also be much safer.

B.
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Old 03-16-08, 03:49 PM   #19
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Men's Cat 5 or Mens Masters 30+ Cat4/5?

Also if a race is labeled Men's Cat 5/Citizens how is that different than Cat 5?

I'm 41 and looking for the slowest first race I can find
Mens cat 5 by far.
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Old 03-16-08, 03:57 PM   #20
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Mens cat 5 by far.
I don't know, I think it's a toss-up. It's not Masters 30+ 1/2/3/4/5, it's 4/5 only. I've never noticed a difference between cat 4 and cat 5 pace.
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Old 03-16-08, 05:24 PM   #21
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Though many promoters call the one-day license 'citizen', I have raced citizen without a license. The promoter can do what he wants. - TF
They might have separate insurance coverage for that-- I don't think USAC will cover you if they didn't buy a one day ($10 for competitive event, I think $5 for a non-competitive event).
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Old 03-17-08, 08:16 AM   #22
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I may be wrong about this but I believe that masters races cannot be used for upgrades. Once you start racing masters categoreies that is the category you will be in unless you return to elite races to accummulate upgrades.
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Old 03-17-08, 08:59 AM   #23
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I may be wrong about this but I believe that masters races cannot be used for upgrades. Once you start racing masters categoreies that is the category you will be in unless you return to elite races to accummulate upgrades.

Yep youre wrong
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