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Old 03-15-08, 06:08 PM   #1
USCswimming
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flat technical crits & power numbers.

I am just curious what kind of power numbers (AP & NP) you guys are putting up in flat technical crits. I have done two pretty flat & technical crits that have the pace shooting all over the place. I am curious what most guys out there are puting out. I am a Cat 4 and it seems like I am having to throw down more power than I thought I would have to. Please list your AP, NP & Category.

I am not trolling or looking to get into any pissing contests. Just looking for numbers to compare to out there.
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Old 03-15-08, 06:10 PM   #2
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It will depend. Weight of the person makes a difference. A 130lb rider will need to put out less power due to aerodynamics than a 190lb rider.

So you would need weight as well...

But if you are able to hang on, what does it matter?
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Old 03-15-08, 07:03 PM   #3
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II am a Cat 4 and it seems like I am having to throw down more power than I thought I would have to.
It seems the only question worth asking (though no one who hasn't seen you race can answer it) is whether you're wasting energy where you don't have to. Outside of that, the answer is whatever your power meter shows you had to do to in those particular races is what you had to do.
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Old 03-15-08, 07:52 PM   #4
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It will depend. Weight of the person makes a difference. A 130lb rider will need to put out less power due to aerodynamics than a 190lb rider.

So you would need weight as well...

But if you are able to hang on, what does it matter?
I'd guess the issue has less to do with aerodynamics than it does accelerating weight. Coming out of a slow corner at 15 and then having to get on it up to 26-28 to get back in the field takes a lot of power, and very little comes from wind resistance.
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Old 03-15-08, 07:56 PM   #5
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Coming out of a slow corner at 15 and then having to get on it up to 26-28 to get back in the field takes a lot of power, and very little comes from wind resistance.
You might want to check your work. Using analyticcycling.com and the most optimistic assumptions, aero drag eats up more than 50% of the total rider power. I don't consider that very little.
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Old 03-15-08, 08:06 PM   #6
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You might want to check your work. Using analyticcycling.com and the most optimistic assumptions, aero drag eats up more than 50% of the total rider power. I don't consider that very little.
I was thinking the same thing;but in the middle of the pack the aero drag *is* minimized.

But a flat technical crit is where it really pays to be in the front of the pack, yo-yo-ing the poor slobs at the back.
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Old 03-15-08, 08:15 PM   #7
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I was thinking the same thing;but in the middle of the pack the aero drag *is* minimized.

But a flat technical crit is where it really pays to be in the front of the pack, yo-yo-ing the poor slobs at the back.
Minimized, but not eliminated. And as you know even a 10% change in power around threshold can have a big impact. So over the course of a race, the rider near the front riding a steady pace around threshold can stay relatively easily, but move the rider back and require ~10% more power to accelerate after the yo-yo'ing and after a few corners, she'll be gone.
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Old 03-15-08, 08:50 PM   #8
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I think your power profile has something to do with it too. I know you to be more of a sprinter trending towards all-rounder from our previous conversations. If you're like me, you spike pretty high coming out of corners and during surges just to keep the draft close or move up a bit, and it hurts us less than it does other guys spiking to the same W/kg, eliminates the gap in front of us, and exaggerates the gap behind us.

I've been coming out of really sharp corners with a 3-bike gap behind me, but feeling quite comfortable.

I don't have any crit data yet, unfortunately. I think it will be May before I have any There's a weekly crit, but I coach soccer practice that night...
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Old 03-15-08, 09:10 PM   #9
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I've been coming out of really sharp corners with a 3-bike gap behind me, but feeling quite comfortable.
I think that also has a lot to do with bike handling. I'm just getting the feel for fast cornering, and people regularly get a couple of bike lengths on me coming out of corners just based on pure technical skills.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:13 PM   #10
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I am just curious what kind of power numbers (AP & NP).
Cat 5 race, 30 minute crit, 4 man break from lap 3. AP 258, NP 286, 24.8 mph.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:19 PM   #11
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I was thinking the same thing;but in the middle of the pack the aero drag *is* minimized.

But a flat technical crit is where it really pays to be in the front of the pack, yo-yo-ing the poor slobs at the back.

Not being near the front and suffering from the accordian effect is what put the hurt on me today. I was riding, for the lack of better words, "like a little beeotch". My training hasn't led me into any really quick, hard bursts yet and those were a little more painful today. Atleast I get back into speedwork after another week. I was pretty suprised to see such a huge difference in AP & NP. Well anyway, here were the numbers:

Land Park Crit:
Duration: 37:20
Work: 632 kJ
TSS: 61.9 (intensity factor 0.997)
Norm Power: 329
VI: 1.17
Distance: 15.866 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1217 282 watts
Heart rate: 91 194 172 bpm
Cadence: 41 163 97 rpm
Speed: 6 34.1 25.5 mph
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Old 03-15-08, 09:33 PM   #12
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Yeah, seeing those numbers, I do think a lot of it has to do with your profile, as well as your pack position. If you weren't near the front, your surges were harder.

I was involved in some attacks and chasing, as well as some sharp hills in this race, but it was a road race and reflects a greater difference between NP and AP (higher VI):

Duration: 1:42:11
Work: 1609 kJ
TSS: 148.2 (intensity factor 0.933)
Norm Power: 322
VI: 1.23
Distance: 39.137 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1434 262 watts
Cadence: 33 141 93 rpm
Speed: 3 49.2 23.0 mph
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Old 03-15-08, 10:01 PM   #13
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Of course weight is going to scew numbers, but even someone at the same weight and aerodynamic drag as you may do upwards of 20-30w difference just based on pack riding skills.
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Old 03-15-08, 11:04 PM   #14
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Pack position is definitely very important. I've done races where I finished with 320 average (72Kg), and someone else I know was at like 230 at near the same weight hiding in the pack. Definitely makes a difference.
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Old 03-16-08, 08:45 AM   #15
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Pack position is definitely very important. I've done races where I finished with 320 average (72Kg), and someone else I know was at like 230 at near the same weight hiding in the pack. Definitely makes a difference.
I have a file from a race last May. The course was 1.6 km, with two hair-pin corners. It was the day after a frustrating 96 km road race. I decided to ride "in anger" at the front to keep the pace high and discourage attacks. My teamate took the win in the end.

Duration: 50:11
Work: 960 kJ
TSS: 83.6 (intensity factor 1.0)
Norm Power: 345
VI: 1.08
Distance: 30.7 km
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1378 319 watts
Heart rate: n/a
Cadence: 32 141 89 rpm
Speed: 5.3 50.8 36.7 km/h

My NP was right at FTP, with a lower VI, due to riding mostly at the front. This was in the S3 category, probably similar to Cat 4.
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