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  1. #1
    getting dropped merckx89's Avatar
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    Reevaluating FTP

    So I've got a time trial coming up and I recently found out that my powertap was not zeroed for the last week so the numbers are useless from it. Before that I did not have a real race to get an accurate FTP from, as most were shorter than an hour. I'm a little worried about pacing during it and subsequently am trying to find my FTP again. Question 1: Is there a way to remove select workouts from cycling peaks?
    Question 2: I know that FTP can be based off of the power distribution chart. What would you assume an FTP from this chart would be.
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    I would rely on PE rather than FTP for a time trial but thats me.
    Please remember that all statements unless quoted, are strictly my opinion of what happened. That there are as many opinions as there are spectators attending. I just choose to publish mine on this forum. And would NEVER intend to purposely hurt or discredit any other cyclist.... With that said... HTFU!

  3. #3
    A Member kukusz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckx89 View Post
    First of all...

    http://www.midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm#Q46

    Second of all...

    You should use 5 Watt bins, I think it would be easier to see. I would guess your ftp is in the 280-300 range. The other thing you might want to do is look at your MMP curve but switch it to normalized power and find an hour. Look at that workout, if that workout has a VI of less than 1.25 you should be able to guesstimate your FTP to +-5% of that value.

  4. #4
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    How do you know your pt numbers are off? It may be correctable...

    wayne

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    280-300 using that one graph
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  7. #7
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    Around 280 using that graph.

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    Ninja don't wear flipflop king-tony's Avatar
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    If I understand training peaks correctly, it reads the saved workouts files everytime it loads. If you delete the files that you believe are bad, then I would think it would be ok.

  9. #9
    getting dropped merckx89's Avatar
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    Problem is I sold the powertap before I realized it was off. The only way I figured out was the new one i got was reading a little lower. So I assumed that the old was was off, just don't know how much.
    Quote Originally Posted by king-tony View Post
    If I understand training peaks correctly, it reads the saved workouts files everytime it loads. If you delete the files that you believe are bad, then I would think it would be ok.
    So if I delete the files, the MMP graph will be redone? The only reason I can't use the MMP curve is the whole thing is from the last few rides with the old powertap, so I think the whole thing is off. I can't go out there and do the test as the race is next weekend and I'm trying to take it easy next week, so I figured I would be able to base it off of current stats.
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  10. #10
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    do a CTS field test. It's pretty quick. Warm up. 3mile tt effort, 10 minutes rest 3 mile tt effort, average the power for the 2 and take 92% of that.

    In my experience its pretty accurate, and a lot easier than doing a one hour effort.

  11. #11
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    So... what power mechanism are you planning on measuring the power with during the TT's?
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  12. #12
    getting dropped merckx89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    So... what power mechanism are you planning on measuring the power with during the TT's?
    I bought a new one after I sold the old one. (great deal on a reynolds rim)
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    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    OK, take the base data of the old one, on a 280-watt-ish day. Take the minimum torque - it should be zero. If it isn't, you can manually re-zero the data and scale the power appropriately in Excel.

    It should be close, assuming your 'bad' data didn't drift too far. I'd personally try at least three, but it's your time/effort.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  14. #14
    getting dropped merckx89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
    OK, take the base data of the old one, on a 280-watt-ish day. Take the minimum torque - it should be zero. If it isn't, you can manually re-zero the data and scale the power appropriately in Excel.

    It should be close, assuming your 'bad' data didn't drift too far. I'd personally try at least three, but it's your time/effort.
    So looking at the file from the old hub, the lowest hub torque was 13. Many of the times when I was slowing down it was reading in the mid 30's. How do you manually re-zero the data? What do you mean "try at least 3"
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    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckx89 View Post
    So looking at the file from the old hub, the lowest hub torque was 13. Many of the times when I was slowing down it was reading in the mid 30's. How do you manually re-zero the data? What do you mean "try at least 3"
    see link in post #3

  16. #16
    Ninja don't wear flipflop king-tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merckx89 View Post
    Problem is I sold the powertap before I realized it was off. The only way I figured out was the new one i got was reading a little lower. So I assumed that the old was was off, just don't know how much.


    So if I delete the files, the MMP graph will be redone? The only reason I can't use the MMP curve is the whole thing is from the last few rides with the old powertap, so I think the whole thing is off. I can't go out there and do the test as the race is next weekend and I'm trying to take it easy next week, so I figured I would be able to base it off of current stats.

    Yes. I tried this last night. To be safe just move the files in quesiton to another directory. Using windows they should be in Program Files>Intellicoach>data>rider name. If you are like me and used the default naming scheme, they should be listed by date and be pretty easy to find.

  17. #17
    Pedalphile
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    Since it's BF, I'm going to say 350W.

  18. #18
    NeoRetroGrouch
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    Do you now know how to zero the torque each ride?

    Learn to use the Chalkbord in WKO+ and you can pick any files you want.

    Have you checked the calibration on either hub?

    I wouldn't assume anything from that graph.

    TF

  19. #19
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    I'm assuming that power distribution graph is over a period of time - which makes it mostly useless for gauging FTP. You'd want a good single ride when using the power distribution, or all rides that would be similarly difficult at/near FTP. If you used the power distro chart for the last 28 days on my Cpeaks, it would indicate an FTP some 40 watts lower than what it is - because of a larger percentage time riding endurance miles than I would ride @ threshold. But if you look at my power distro charts for _only_ @/near threshold days, you'd get a much more accurate picture of FTP.

    It's just not that easy to get it from power distro charts, imo. That's why it's not high on the list of ways to determine it.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member?
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    sidenote: Learn how to zero your torque at the head unit. If you haven't done this, it's your problem, not the PT's.

  21. #21
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion here. I'm not trying to completely hijack, but...

    I've been estimating my FTP at 345 for the last 2 weeks, but I feel like I'm stronger than that, especially with my new 5-minute record of 454W. The two chances I've had to test FTP were ruined by flash floods and flat tires. Yesterday I went out to hammer with Houston_Biker (my bro-in-law) for 42 miles, and we just kept the pressure up the whole way in a 2-man paceline. Really tough ride, but but not like a race. About 2 hours.

    So, this is the distribution from the ride (excluding NMP portions), the green bar is 350-360W. I plan to confirm with a test sometime in the next month, but would that put my FTP at 350+? (With 5w bins, the big drop comes after 360-365, but the lines are too thin to post usefully)


  22. #22
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    If you have PE that tells you something based on what you feel AND see on the meter, that will be wholly more accurate than a power distro examination, IMO.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  23. #23
    A Member kukusz's Avatar
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    ^^^

    I would definitely up your ftp to the 350+ range and then maybe even more after some more formal testing.

    On a side note, during a race today I set a 30 MP of 261 and a normalized for that time of 281. I had my FTP set to 255, time to go up as well? I've set several 60 M normalized of over 260 in recent training rides, if that helps.

    edit: Reading Friel's blog tells me not to up it since it was a 30 MP set during a race.
    Last edited by kukusz; 03-22-08 at 04:17 PM.

  24. #24
    Aut Vincere Aut Mori Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    So, uh, why the aversion to just doing a test? 30 minutes flat out should be part of a regular training regimen this time of year anyway...

  25. #25
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    So, uh, why the aversion to just doing a test? 30 minutes flat out should be part of a regular training regimen this time of year anyway...
    Yeah, I tried testing twice last week, but was foiled both times. This week I've got some other bleed-from-the-eyes training nonsense planned (Jester pb attempt..., Tuesday Nighter, then I'll be too beat for a good test), then a mini-taper for a race on Sunday.

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