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Old 03-27-08, 07:25 PM   #1
snoboard2
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4 seconds

This week is a recovery week in my training plan; 3 weeks on 1 week recover and test. Tonight is the local 10 mile TT, so I took advantage and used it to test my FTP.

I show up on my tt bike and training wheels (32 spoke open pro's) because I want the power data. Out and back, 15mph crosswind so it's bad on the way out, manageable on the way back. All I care about are watts. Shooting for an average of 300w for the TT.

Pull up to the finish and wait around a bit to see times just for fun. I ran a 25:11 (24 mph avg). Timer looks at me and goes "4 seconds". I lost by 4 seconds. lol how crazy. It's the smallest margin i've ever had.

Anyway, chatting with the winner, I noticed he had a powertap. I ask him what wattage he was shooting for. He says 215w . Let me reiterate . He's running a P2c with 32 spoke front and back and a regular helmet. I don't call him out on it there, but I figure i'd bring it up here. 215w ave for 24.1 mph into the wind? What do ya'll think?

P.S. FTP's at 280w It's up 30% from November. I'm hoping for the magic 300 by May
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Old 03-27-08, 07:38 PM   #2
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you know those Cervelos..........
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Old 03-27-08, 07:38 PM   #3
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Yeah, it's pretty crazy how different people's wattages are. For me, a 353W average at the local TT loop is good enough for 26mph. I think I heard the state TT champ (30 mph) hits about 320W (can't remember the number, but it's at least that offensive).
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Old 03-27-08, 07:43 PM   #4
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I got 2nd in a Collegiate B's TT with 255 watts (25.5 mph). FTP at the time was hovering 285-290 watts. It was the first time I'd ever used my new TT bike, and my position is pretty low and narrow.

I was running a cheap Leader frame, Front 404, and Powertap (no cover).
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Old 03-27-08, 08:14 PM   #5
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215w ave for 24.1 mph into the wind? What do ya'll think?
I think a CdA of around 0.24, maybe less. Pretty good for no helmet and standard wheels. The good Dr. W is around 0.19 fully tricked out.

Sounds like you need to work on your aero positioning
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Old 03-27-08, 08:16 PM   #6
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State champ last year took me by almost 30 seconds. My output? 356 watts. His? 314.

*EDIT* My CDA for last year apparently was .236. This year should be just under .200
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Old 03-27-08, 08:59 PM   #7
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i'm officially changing my BF screenname to parachute

P.S. Could I have a linky to the site to put in all the numbers? please?
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Old 03-27-08, 09:02 PM   #8
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I believe it is analyticcycling.com
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Old 03-27-08, 09:03 PM   #9
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i'm officially changing my BF screenname to parachute

P.S. Could I have a linky to the site to put in all the numbers? please?
You already know of this right?

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
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Old 03-27-08, 09:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
State champ last year took me by almost 30 seconds. My output? 356 watts. His? 314.

*EDIT* My CDA for last year apparently was .236. This year should be just under .200
How do you know what Jay's drag was? I didn't think he did the wind tunnel thing and I know he doesn't powertap.

-mark
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Old 03-27-08, 09:19 PM   #11
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When I had a powermeter, I put out some impressively low numbers considering my speed/distance.....
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Old 03-27-08, 09:20 PM   #12
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i do. i had it in favorites on the old computer, but didn't transfer it over and forgot the name of the site. Thanks!

Any aero tips? How helpful was the pro fitting i'm sure you had done?
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Old 03-27-08, 09:31 PM   #13
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i do. i had it in favorites on the old computer, but didn't transfer it over and forgot the name of the site. Thanks!

Any aero tips? How helpful was the pro fitting i'm sure you had done?
DrW was kind enough to start a thread, linking to a few articles detailing his experience in a wind tunnel.
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Old 03-27-08, 09:56 PM   #14
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w/kg ........ thats all im saying
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Old 03-27-08, 10:59 PM   #15
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maybe on a hill climb. I had this little guy crushed:
Me: 75 kg (i need to drop 15 lbs i know) @ 300w = 4 w/kg
Him: 61 kg @ 215w = 3.5 w/kg

My drag > his drag
My shwag < his shwag

although to be honest, i was pissing away time at the turn around. I'm more concerned with later tts and improving my times. I want to get the most out of my watts, seeing as thought races are won by lowest time, not by highest watts...

seeing as this thread is turning into an aero thread (which was my original intent after the vent/personal best session), does anyone know where to get a Bell meteor ll this side of the pond?
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Old 03-28-08, 04:51 AM   #16
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w/kg ........ thats all im saying
+1

are people just blatantly ignoring this or what?
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Old 03-28-08, 06:34 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by snoboard2 View Post
I ask him what wattage he was shooting for. He says 215w . Let me reiterate . He's running a P2c with 32 spoke front and back and a regular helmet. I don't call him out on it there, but I figure i'd bring it up here. 215w ave for 24.1 mph into the wind? What do ya'll think?
How much did he weigh compared to you?
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Old 03-28-08, 06:39 AM   #18
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+1

are people just blatantly ignoring this or what?
Common knowledge, right? The denominator never fails to frustrate!
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Old 03-28-08, 10:20 AM   #19
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How do you know what Jay's drag was? I didn't think he did the wind tunnel thing and I know he doesn't powertap.

-mark
Actually I did the PA State TT, the NY State TT, and the NJ State TT champs. I was talking about the NJ. Jay is a beast and he put up a smoking time on a tough course. Can't comment on him. Actually, come to think of it, I believe I only commented on the power output for the race. The CdA measurements were my pre and post tunnel measurements.

Oh, and W/kg are nice for the hills, but not important for a flat TT.
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Old 03-28-08, 10:32 AM   #20
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lituania, jynx and wr, take a peek at the post above yours. he said he was 135 lbs or about 61 kilos. I did all the math in my last post.

The good doctor is right. In a hill climb tt i'dve had the advantage, but because all that matters on a flat TT are power and drag, i didn't
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Old 03-28-08, 10:48 AM   #21
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Yeah, it's pretty crazy how different people's wattages are. For me, a 353W average at the local TT loop is good enough for 26mph. I think I heard the state TT champ (30 mph) hits about 320W (can't remember the number, but it's at least that offensive).
He runs about 320-330. Last year, I matched you at about 270. We're both smaller (weigh less) and have a bit better position, though.
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Old 03-28-08, 11:21 AM   #22
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Is there anything about time trialing that isnt completely nerdy?

I'd rather eat a ziploc bag of glass than do a TT. Unfortunately, with the stage races I'm doing this year, I'll have to do a couple. Fortunately, they'll be of the shortish variety.
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Old 03-28-08, 11:32 AM   #23
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I want to do my first TT (in about 20 yrs) but with a minimal investment.

I have a couple questions

1. how do you figure out your coefficient of drag without a wind tunnel?

2. I don't have a TT bike - I expect to ride in the drops with a regular helmet and decent aero wheels. Should I get a clip-on aero bar?
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Old 03-28-08, 11:41 AM   #24
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I want to do my first TT (in about 20 yrs) but with a minimal investment.

I have a couple questions

1. how do you figure out your coefficient of drag without a wind tunnel?

2. I don't have a TT bike - I expect to ride in the drops with a regular helmet and decent aero wheels. Should I get a clip-on aero bar?
I assume you want to do your first TT after not haeing done one since '88 or so and you are not saying that you plan on doing one in 2028. To answer your questions with opinion thrown in for poor measure.

1. You can reverse calculate it by doing a coast down on a long steady hill, buy an IBike, or make up a number. It really is irrelevant at this point in the game (maybe always irrelevant).

2. The aero bar question. It will save you the most time (best bang for buck) and much better than aero wheels, but you have to deal with a new position, less control, and possible fit issues. Should you get the aero bars? Yes. Should you train on them quite a bit? Yes.

Maybe it's time to make a TT sticky?
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Old 03-28-08, 11:56 AM   #25
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He runs about 320-330. Last year, I matched you at about 270. We're both smaller (weigh less) and have a bit better position, though.
Ah, cool.

Last year, I think I was riding it around 315W, so the extra 40W should help me when they get the timing mats out in a couple weeks

I managed a 19:14 (25.3mph) out there with just the drop bars last week, at 355W. Interestingly, it looks like I might be a little more powerful in the TT position

I think I'll reach my goal of 18:00 this year.
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