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Old 03-30-08, 09:38 PM   #1
MrCrassic 
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Hill Repeats/Climbing Workout

So I need to start preparing for the race weekend at Army, and if there's anything that I suck at more is climbing.

I think there have been books written of my climbing slowness. Example: A hill with about a 10% grade (estimated) will make me crawl it at 6 mph or so. Not acceptable.

What is a good way to do these hill repeats? Should I concentrate more on pedal stroke/cadence or power? In other words, should I drop to the lowest ring/sprocket if I need to, or should I try my very best to hammer it down on a ratio with enough resistance?

I should mention that my bike is about 22 - 23 pounds, and that I weigh about 160. I mention this because I know that power to weight ratio is a big deal, especially on hills.

Thanks!
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Old 03-30-08, 09:59 PM   #2
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Get out across the GWB to River Road. The climb at the end, up to the police station, is about 1mile, averaging 6(ish)%. Make sure you ride all the way down to the parking lot at the roundabout.

So it's steep enough that it hurts, but you can still spin up. I would focus on being smooth, so yes downshift to a gear that you can hold 80-85rpm (at least). It will take approx. 7 mins total, repeat until you fall over. Plus, you get the E2 time riding out and back.

Do you race C's? If so, disregard my advice and spend all week sitting on the couch. Rest will do you better than training.
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Old 03-30-08, 10:05 PM   #3
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I race Intro (Men's D with instructions).

I fear doing hill repeats because the real hills are far from where I am, and going back would be the problem.

Yes, yes HTFU.
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Old 03-30-08, 10:46 PM   #4
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So I need to start preparing for the race weekend at Army, and if there's anything that I suck at more is climbing.

I think there have been books written of my climbing slowness. Example: A hill with about a 10% grade (estimated) will make me crawl it at 6 mph or so. Not acceptable.

What is a good way to do these hill repeats? Should I concentrate more on pedal stroke/cadence or power? In other words, should I drop to the lowest ring/sprocket if I need to, or should I try my very best to hammer it down on a ratio with enough resistance?

I should mention that my bike is about 22 - 23 pounds, and that I weigh about 160. I mention this because I know that power to weight ratio is a big deal, especially on hills.

Thanks!
Get a lighter bike.

Do the hills in the biggest gear you can; you can sit and spin and watch everyone drop you, or you can hammer in a big gear and maintain some respectability. Start tomorrow.

While there's something to be said for spinning up a hill, a race isn't the place for that. You need to pour it on. Biggest gear you can stand without blowing up. Kick some *ss.
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Old 03-30-08, 10:58 PM   #5
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Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to practice going up hills to be fast.

It comes down to having the watts, or not. Whatever combination of cadence/gear gets you over a certain distance, elevation, or finish line the fastest is the best. Whether that's 60rpm or 120rpm is up to you, and we can't tell you that.

So:

Any sort of hard, fast repeat will do. Go until you blow, recover, and then go again. Rinse and repeat.

There is nothing complex about getting stronger on the bike, particularly when you're a beginner. You go hard a couple of days a week, go easy and longer the others. Occasionally take
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Old 03-30-08, 11:07 PM   #6
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Get a lighter bike.

Do the hills in the biggest gear you can; you can sit and spin and watch everyone drop you, or you can hammer in a big gear and maintain some respectability. Start tomorrow.

While there's something to be said for spinning up a hill, a race isn't the place for that. You need to pour it on. Biggest gear you can stand without blowing up. Kick some *ss.
Hell yes. Swap out that nancy-boy 50/36 for a real-He-Man 54/42, a cassette no bigger than 11-23, and f***ing kill people.

Actually, screw that. A real man would put a single speed freewheel of no more than 16t on his track bike, in combination with his 50t (or greater) chainring. DEEP carbon wheels required, of course.

Like this, but with drop bars:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...ic.php?t=41258
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Old 03-31-08, 09:37 AM   #7
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You guys have money to donate a lighter bike for me? :-D

I'm planning on getting something lighter, but that won't happen until way after the season is over, as that's when I'm probably starting my new internship (unless I get super-lucky with some big tech companies for summer internships).
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Old 03-31-08, 11:08 AM   #8
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I will put you on the light bike of your choice, and I will take yours and put a back pack with books on. I will still outclimb you. Why? because you need training, not a lighter bike.

Having said that, Duke has it right. Listen to him.
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Old 03-31-08, 12:16 PM   #9
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I will put you on the light bike of your choice, and I will take yours and put a back pack with books on. I will still outclimb you. Why? because you need training, not a lighter bike.

Having said that, Duke has it right. Listen to him.
Let's do some math.

Let's say you have a 22lb bike, and you weigh 160lbs, as stated. Converted, that's 10kg and 73kg. 83kg all told.

Me? I'm 65kg at the moment, quite lardy, and my bike once I recieve my race wheels, will be 7kg-ish. 72kg for the lot.

I'm not going to bother with clothing, water, how much your sunglasses weigh, etc.

We're going up a climb.

If your body is capable of producing 3.5w/kg for 20min, that's 256w. 256 divided by your body/bike mass is 3.07w/kg.

At some point this summer, I'll be going at 5.25w/kg, or more, uphill, for that same duration. That's 341w, for me, right now. Divided by my total system mass, that's 4.73w/kg.

I'd have to add on 38kg of mass in order to go uphill at the same rate as the hypothetical "you" at 72kg, on a 10kg bike.
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Old 03-31-08, 12:21 PM   #10
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^^^

Are you saying it's all about the engine?
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Old 03-31-08, 12:45 PM   #11
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Nah, full ceramic bearings, no dust covers and dimpled Zipp 606s, man.*

I'm pretty much pulled uphill.

*It should be noted I possess none of those things.
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Old 03-31-08, 01:21 PM   #12
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I haven't done any serious climbing in weeks. I've been working on increasing my power though. So a couple weeks ago we hit a nasty climb with some 20%+ spots. I figure (because of my backwoods ******* thinking) that I would be dusted and end up walking.

First to the top.

Screw the bike. Work on power and getting ugly skinny. When people around you start laying their hands on you and pray for the sickness, you don't have, to leave your body, you have arrived at your ideal weight.
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Old 03-31-08, 02:00 PM   #13
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As the ultra-PC cross country coach at the University of Colorado once put it:

"I want my runner(s) to look like a skeleton with a condom pulled over its head."
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Old 03-31-08, 02:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
I will put you on the light bike of your choice, and I will take yours and put a back pack with books on. I will still outclimb you. Why? because you need training, not a lighter bike.

Having said that, Duke has it right. Listen to him.
We hardly needed a reminder that you pwn everybody here Dr. W.

Please.
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Old 03-31-08, 02:21 PM   #15
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+1 on the Alpine D'Huez climb from the Alpine Boat Basin up to the police station. That's a 1+ mile climb, probably averages 5-6%, a bit steeper for the last 400 meters, perfect hill for hill repeats. I used to to 5-6 of them over there each week. Loved training there when I lived in Bergen County. I do hill repeats on a slightly longer/tougher hill now, but the Alpine hill is ideal in my view.
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Old 03-31-08, 02:28 PM   #16
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You guys have money to donate a lighter bike for me? :-D

I'm planning on getting something lighter, but that won't happen until way after the season is over, as that's when I'm probably starting my new internship (unless I get super-lucky with some big tech companies for summer internships).

In the race I was in Saturday there was a guy on an old steel bike with down tube shifters, using MTB pedals and tourist shoes. He was killing everyone on the big climb. I only know that because I saw him go up the road when I got dropped, and there's pics on line showing him on the front of what was left of the group, dishing out the hurt to a bunch of guys on bikes that cost about 10x what his is worth.

It's not about the bike.
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Old 03-31-08, 02:56 PM   #17
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I would say that 6 mph for a long 10 % climb is quite decent. That means climbing 1000 meters an hour . I like to train in long uphills and believe that there is specific benefits to that kind of training, ie you get better at what you do a lot of.
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Old 03-31-08, 05:36 PM   #18
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+1 on the Alpine D'Huez climb from the Alpine Boat Basin up to the police station. That's a 1+ mile climb, probably averages 5-6%, a bit steeper for the last 400 meters, perfect hill for hill repeats. I used to to 5-6 of them over there each week. Loved training there when I lived in Bergen County. I do hill repeats on a slightly longer/tougher hill now, but the Alpine hill is ideal in my view.
Pcad,

I was actually thinking of the roads leading to 9W. Have you tried those?

If I had to guess, those are worse than the Alpine D'Huez at Palisades Park. They are longer, steeper and cars make it unforgiving.

There's another road in Weehawken/Port Imperial called Gorge Road that goes up to Cliffside Park. It's a stupid steep climb, but only about 0.5 miles and then it smoothens out (but is still pretty steep). I practice there more because it's convenient.

On another note, I've also decided to add a bit of flavor to the workout and add the books that I need for school while I do these workouts. Increases my mass by about 10 pounds or so (or increases my weight by 98 Newtons). Much more hurt. I like it :-D
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Old 03-31-08, 08:00 PM   #19
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Pcad,

I was actually thinking of the roads leading to 9W. Have you tried those?

If I had to guess, those are worse than the Alpine D'Huez at Palisades Park. They are longer, steeper and cars make it unforgiving.

There's another road in Weehawken/Port Imperial called Gorge Road that goes up to Cliffside Park. It's a stupid steep climb, but only about 0.5 miles and then it smoothens out (but is still pretty steep). I practice there more because it's convenient.

On another note, I've also decided to add a bit of flavor to the workout and add the books that I need for school while I do these workouts. Increases my mass by about 10 pounds or so (or increases my weight by 98 Newtons). Much more hurt. I like it :-D
As an engineering student, shouldn't you know that the work you do will be the same (i.e. effort) but you'll just go slower?

There's no point in loading yourself down...
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Old 04-01-08, 04:58 AM   #20
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As an engineering student, shouldn't you know that the work you do will be the same (i.e. effort) but you'll just go slower?

There's no point in loading yourself down...
Good catch.
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