velo

So I was just reading this morning that Geneviève Jeanson is off the hook from the high hematocrit level that was found in her blood sample at this year's worlds. A urine sample showed that she didn't take EPO, but isn't the fact that she still has a high hematocrit level??? Why is she off the hook just since she didn't take this particular drug? She messed up with the tent she was sleeping in that, in the end, has the same effect on the body as taking EPO; your body produces more red blood cells.

Personally, I don't think it should be left to the method you use. If you're hematocrit is too high, and you don't have a medical reason it should be that way, you should be punished. Anyone feel the same?

Smoothie104

The negative Urine Sample shows She didn't take EPO within 3-4 days of the test.

georgesnatcher

Well at least on the mens side having a high hematocrit level is deemed "unfit for racing". Look what happened to the UK rider Charlie Wegilius. No evidence of EPO, had a high hematocrit level, and was held out of the Tour of Lombardy by the UCI. What they need to do is come up with a test for EPO and like substances. The way I understand it having a hemorrhoid will raise your level.

velocipedio

the rumour mill in montreal [jeanson's hometown] has long had it that she was doping. it would be a shame if she was forever labelled a suspected doper, if she wasn't. on the other hand, as smoothie points out, the negative doesn't mean that she wasn't doping, only that the test did not find that she was doping...

and yet... and yet... her national teammates [notably lyne bessette] seem to believe she has been doping for a long time... her name has been connected with a doping scandal in the past... her coach has long had a bad reputation in the sport... and her hematocrit was not just above the 47% allowable, it was way above the limit...

as for the tent having the same effect as epo, velo, you're right. but the uci has had to split hairs here. training at altitude has the same effect, and it would not be possible to make that illegal. the distinction the uci makes is between environmental advantages and direct biological intervention.

brent_dube

I think it shouldnt matter whether she tested positive or not. Putting her off the hook would be saying 'its ok to be over 47%. just dont use drugs'. It would be unfair for those who make sure to keep themselves under the limit, to put her off the hook.

velo

But can that put you over the limit as her tent has supposedly done?

velocipedio

considering that the tent is supposed to simulate being at altitude, i'd venture to guess yes... but what i wonder is whether either the tent or training at altitude would raise one's hematocrit as high as jeanson's was reported to be...

velo

The tent's accuracy could be off. It has the capability to raise someone's hematocrit levels to one point, and real elevation training could raise it to another.

But, on the other point, she could have definitely been doping if neither the tent nor training at altitude could raise ones levels as high as Jeanson's. I understand what you are saying, velocipedio. And, it could be true, especially will all the rumors in Canada.

velocipedio

it's funny... i like gj. you see her watching the local crits. sometimes you run into her on an early or late-season training ride. i see her father riding in rona colours, on a colnago almost every time i head out on the lakeshore. she sometimes stops for frozen yogurt at a little place a kilometre from my house. in many ways, she's family to montreal cyclists. she's our fair-haired girl, so no one wants to think the unthinkable. but there has been so much smoke sround her for the last couple of years, you can't help but wonder if there's a fire.

jtm133

LA uses an O2 tent as well. Lots of other folks do. It's legal. I did not see what here level was reported to be. But, she has not tested positive for anything...folks get accused of a lot of stuff without any proof...its kind of sad.

Guest

If she is doping, she'll get caught at some point. I'd love to see UCI do random, frequent checks on all the riders in the off season. Let's see how high the old hematocrit will be at that point!

I would think that even if the tests are flawed, they probably do run the tests multiple times. When I worked in a lab and we wanted to get some results from lab tests, we'd re-run them multiple times. You never know if the first one was a fluke or what, and I'm sure they're doing this with her tests, and they're consistently coming back with higher hematocrit levels.

I think there will always be a way for someone to dope, and as long as there are companies looking to make money off drug doping, there will be some kind of doping in every sporting event.

Well, maybe every sporting event but curling...



Koffee

brent_dube

I bet a lot of curlers use beta blockers, or other drugs with similar effects

Smoothie104

Canadian doctor Maurice Duquette, who pleaded guilty on Monday to prescribing EPO to an as-yet-unnamed Quebec female cyclist and her coach, has now denied giving the rider drugs.

According to a report from the Montreal Gazette, the latest development came in a disciplinary hearing at the Quebec College of Physicians and Surgeons (QCPS) on Tuesday. The CPS disciplinary panel was hearing arguments on making the rider's name public; her identity is currently protected by a publication ban. The rider's lawyer, Alain Barrette, said Duquette had presented the letter denying the allegations by hand to his patient on Tuesday. The previous day, Duquette pleaded guilty to 14 charges of administering banned drugs to 11 patients between 1998 and 2001, including three instances involving the rider.

The panel refused to accept the letter as evidence, saying that Duquette's guilty plea stands. Duquette's lawyer, Jean-François Lepage argued that the only issue at hand in the hearing was the publication ban, and not the guilt of his client, while Barrette, representing the rider, said that Duquette's guilty plea could in no way be linked to his client.

Organizations requesting the lifting of the publication ban include Radio-Canada, La Presse, The Montreal Gazette and the Quebec Cycling Federation.

Louis Barbeau, general director of the Quebec Cycling Federation, said the federation wanted the publication ban lifted so it can tackle the particular drug issue. "When you have a doctor who admits he prescribed some of these substances, we need to find out if the allegations are true," he said.

roadwarrior

She's called a press conference for today....this should be interesting.

Guest

Let us know what happened. Sheesh, I saw her racing (and winning) in Montreal in June... it would be sad if she was doping.

Koffee

spexy

Sounds like she was doping but is still not admitting it fully:

https://www.velonews.com/news/fea/5254.0.html

roadwarrior

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=...v03/nov18news1

says she is innocent, and never even seen EPO...

Smoothie104

Never seen it? C'mon....

You can get it at any pharmacy in the country, Walgreens even has their prices on their website. Its not some unobtainable mystery substance that has to be smuggled in from Boliva or something. It's use is rampant in Cross Country Skiing, Cycling, almost all endurance sports. There is still no test that will detect it after 3 days of injection. High hematocrit counts can be masked by 20 min on an IV drip.

Need proof the testing doesn't work? Everyone keeps pissing clean, but when the cops raid the hotel, medical waste is flying out the windows like a prison riot. Guys are getting caught with hundreds of vials in their cars, luggage, hotel rooms etc. But they never tested positive.

Almost every division 1 pro team in the peleton has either been caught doping, caught disposing of empty doping packages, or is employing ex doped pro's in management positions. The list of past Tour winners who are finally coming forward to clear their conscience is growing.



Why is this doctor changing his story all of a sudden?

Amd how about this tidbit?


"The publication ban forbidding naming the cyclist was lifted at the request of Jeanson herself, on the condition that she keep the confidentiality of her medical files."

Everyone knew it was her anyways, she looks good in the public eye by coming out and saying it was her name in the report, but continues to deny. And cut a sweet deal by keeping her records confidential.

Slick.

roadbuzz

"It's for my dog!"

"It's for my mother-in-law!"

"It's that d@mn chocolate from South America!"

I'm completely jaded about the whole PED issue in pro cycling. As a spectator, and given there's no way to know who's really doing what, what good is it to stress over it? Realistically, what testing actually accomplishes is 1) maintaining some degree of parity in the peloton, and 2) limiting riders self-inflicted physical abuse from PEDs.

Guest

I know this is no answer, but I vote for manditory, random, year-round testing of all athletes in an effort to curtail the illegal use of EPO. In addition, there should be random home and office checks for the doctors, the coaches and the homes of the athletes. It probably wouldn't solve the problem, but it sure would make it a lot harder to shoot up the EPO in the off season.

I know Procrit also elevates red blood cell counts. Some hospitals are opting to move to Procrit and decrease the amount of EPO they order. Procrit works very similar to EPO and is cheaper too. They need to start looking for the use of Procrit while they're looking for EPO.

Koffee

roadwarrior

You forgot about the throat lozenges from the dentist....

You're welcome...

velo

This is what the USADA does for its elite athletes. It's a good thing.

roadwarrior

And they show up anytime they like...like the time they showed up at Armstrong's house at 6.30am when they were about to leave for the hospital because his wife was in labor.

They just show up at the house, take a sample, you sign papers, but it can be done virtually at anytime they choose.

Smoothie104

Actually, Procrit is EPO

Procrit is the brand name for synthetic EPO made by Ortho Biotech
Epogen is the brand name for synthetic EPO made by Amgen
Eprex is the brand name for synthetic EPO made by Johnson & Johnson under license from Amgen for sale overseas.

Total sales of all EPO drugs last year? $6 Billion. The three manufactures are currently in litigation over license rights, and guerilla marketing tactics.

Erythropoietin (EPO) is a growth factor normally produced by the kidney. EPO stimulates the production of red blood cells in the bone marrow. The Current UCI test is only able to detect red blood cells that have been made by the bodies reponse to synthetic EPO within 3 or 4 days.

There is also a product on the market that is closely related to EPO and acts in the same way, but is referred to as an erythropoiesis-stimulating protein. Its name is Aranesp, it is also made by Amgen

Aranesp is now favored due to its longer lasting effects, which means fewer monthly injections, and fewer 3 day 'positive test' windows to worry about.

Not only is EPO readily available to anyone with a prescription, pharmacist friend, sneaky team doctor etc. It's not really that expensive. At least on an enhacement level. If you are suffering from severe anemia, or total renal failure it gets costly, but if you only need a slight increase? I could dope and get a 7-8% increase in my Hematocrit count for less than $200.00 a month.

EPO is cheap, effective, and easily obtained. It is a performance enhancing drug for the masses. Beating the hematocrit tests is as easy as 20min on an IV drip, which would temporarily get you under the 50% mark. Remeber all the artificial hemoglobin found at the Giro?
But this is all old news, and old technology. There are much better, harder to detect drugs. The new generation is much more expensive, which explains why the guys getting caught with EPO in the system are usually riders we've never heard of. They can't afford the undectable stuff.

You may have heard about THG on the news, a 'designer steroid'. Man made specifically to beat the current tests. The only way the doping agencies found out about it is because a track coach who was presumably tired of his athletes losing to others who were on it, sent a sample to the Anti-doping agency.

Even drugs they know about are abused freely due to no accurate test. As of today there is still no test to detect abuse of Human Growth Hormone. None! It helps you get faster, stronger, slow down the aging process, hell the stuff even helps some people see better. No lie! It strengthens all the muscles in your body, including the ones around the eye.

The 1996 olympic games in Atlanta were called "The Growth Hormone Games" by the athletes themselves. There was no test for it then, nor in Sydney in 2000, and I read today that there will be no test in place for Athens 2004. (I would not be surprised if the last bit is dis-information in hopes of trying to catch the cheats). HgH aids and speeds muscle recovery. It allows athletes to train and race harder day after day after day. This may be the 3rd Olympics where everyone knows that they can cheat and not get caught. This may also be the 8th or so Tour De France where everyone knows they can cheat and in no way get caught.


There are drugs which are still in clinical trials and not set to be released until 2007, yet somehow they are already found in the peleton, there is no test, because the UCI doesn't know the drug exists until someone goofs up and leaves an empty vial in a hotel room.

Actovegin is on the UCI banned list after US Postal got caught throwing empty packages away. I know Lance dismisses this in his book, and even says he never heard of it. But here is some more information. The team doctor cleared it with French customs and the medical board before bringing it in the country. Team officials claimed it was for skin abrasions and a staff member who is diabetic. It IS used to treat skin ulcers on diabetic patients and speeds healing by allowing the tissues to take up more oxygen. However, one uses a 5% actovegin cream for this, not the several IV bags found. Lance does say that it wasn't a banned substance, it wasn't. Until the UCI found it. Now it is.

The latest weapon of choice is Repoxygen, still in clinical trials, but already rumored to be in the peleton. It is undetectable, and works by raising the bodies production of natural EPO. This renders the current EPO test useless. Take a little repoxygen, and a little Hgh and you will be superman, and they won't catch you. And even if you do get caught with the stuff in your luggage, You get a year off, and then someone else will pick you back up next season.

Would they cheat?

Take these olympic athletes, like the guys who do the shot put, and the power lifters. There is no huge payday for them down the road, no million dollar contracts, no shoe endorsments, yet they are getting caught doping. Risking their lives and reputation simply for the thrill of victory. Now imagine a pro cyclist, with a wife and three kids, no formal education and his income depends on nothing but his athletic performance and his ability to suffer. He grew up racing bicycles in a doped peleton, his Director Sportif grew up racing bicycles in a doped peleton and his Director Sportif grew up racing bicycles in a doped peleton. and so on.....

Pedro Delgado had the nickname 'testo' for his fondness of testasterone, he tested positive for probenicide (used to mask the testasterone, banned by the Olympic Committee, but not the UCI, yet)the year he won the tour. His superdomestique that year, and several years afterwards was Miguel Indurain. 1996 TdF winner Bjarne Riis reportedly tested @ 58.3% Hematocrit in a blood test the day after he trounced Indurain at Hautacam. He has since reversed his staunch anti doping stance, and now admits to its presence and history. Riis' super domestique/understudy during his win? none other than Jan Ullrich. And Riis is now the director sportif at CSC.

When you think of all the pro cyclists who are willing to take banned substances which CAN be detected, and either rely on counter measures, or simply hope for the best. Imagine how many are on Hgh and other stuff that can't be detected.

But you know what? despite all this...... I am still a die hard fan. Because regardless of their medical preperation, the riders still suffer for one another, sacrifice personal glory for the good of the team. Push themselves beyond even what they think is possible. Acting out an amazing drama on a lifesize stage through all the best and worst that mother nature has to offer. Despite the doping, it is still the sport of kings!

spexy

Wow, smoothie, thanks for the info. It was very informative. So much so I wish I had access to these drugs!!!!!!!

OK, just kidding.