Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Cat WTF
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Raising 10-20 second power (tips needed)

    What are some tips for increasing 10-20 second power? My serious limiter is not being able to handle pack surges or attacks. I go out and get dropped at every opportunity just so I can work on short term power.

    My one minute power is greater than last year by 5%, five minute power up by 3%, 15 minute power level with a weight loss of 10-15 pounds from last year. 20 second power is DOWN 25%!

  2. #2
    I'm that guy that I am.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,153
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I do lots of 15s/15s. 15 seconds on at full power, 15 seconds off while spinning. Repeat many times. Recover for a bit, then do it all over again.
    It's not how many miles you ride, but how hard you ride them. Time trials aren't races.

  3. #3
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin (near TX)
    My Bikes
    rkwaki's porn collection
    Posts
    25,998
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you do a search here for "sprint workouts," you'll find several good ones.

    You might consider concentrating on anaerobic work capacity as well through 1-2m intervals. If you do them all-out from the beginning, you'll be building sprint strength, then you' you just keep hammering until the time is up.

  4. #4
    A Member kukusz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    855
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
    My serious limiter is not being able to handle pack surges or attacks. I go out and get dropped at every opportunity just so I can work on short term power.
    Do you get out-accelerated or do you get dropped right after the surge? It is likely that you need more short high intensity intervals so you can work on your recovery after a surge, not just the actual max power values.

  5. #5
    Cat WTF
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kukusz View Post
    Do you get out-accelerated or do you get dropped right after the surge?
    Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.

  6. #6
    A Member kukusz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    855
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
    Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
    Well then, grow some guads.

  7. #7
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    MABRA
    My Bikes
    2007 CAAD9; 2008 Giant Bowery; 2008 Surly Crosscheck
    Posts
    13,130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    15s on, 15s off. See stars.
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  8. #8
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Newton Ctr. MA
    My Bikes
    2 cdale Caad7. Scatantte CX/winter bike. SS commuter.
    Posts
    2,109
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    good tips, thus far. ^^^^

    I'd also add that technique and pack placement is key. Being in the back 1/3 of the field is a recipe for dropped-ness. Surges are amplified by the accordion effect making it even harder to stay attached.
    Additionally, being towards the front of the pack gives you a little leeway if you cant quite handle the acceleration and you need to fade backwards.

    Also, learning to read the field a bit and anticipate surges will help. Be ready for the surge, have a good wheel and HOLD IT!! dont let that 6'6" dude you're drafting get away! Put it all out there initially to hold the wheel and you'll reap the benefits of the draft and probably work less hard in the process. Be ready and hit it hard!


    This doesnt get you off the hook for those 15s on/ 15s off intervals, though!!!


    -Leo
    Teammates-on-Podium O'meter: 0/n (n=total # of teammates I get to race with)
    Successful Breakaway O'meter: 0/total number of races entered

    Team/Training blogness:www.thresholdcycling.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,300
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
    Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
    What you describe appears to me is a positioning and awareness issue - you're not riding close enough to the wheel in front of you and you arent "anticipating" what is happening in the situation where you're being dropped. Take care of those and you dont need to worry about increasing your short term max efforts (which most of the reading I've done on teh innernets as well as my own observations suggest that these are fairly fixed and do not improve appreciably through training).

    As for why we do 15s on/15s off, my understanding is it's more to practice the recovery and repeatability of the demands these efforts place on us rather than improving the absolute max power that we can generate for a 15s or other short duration.

  10. #10
    Carpe Diem bdcheung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    MABRA
    My Bikes
    2007 CAAD9; 2008 Giant Bowery; 2008 Surly Crosscheck
    Posts
    13,130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
    As for why we do 15s on/15s off, my understanding is it's more to practice the recovery and repeatability of the demands these efforts place on us rather than improving the absolute max power that we can generate for a 15s or other short duration.
    Spot on. It's about adaptation. But that doesn't mean your 15s on should be a cake walk.
    "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
    ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    776
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The divergence in your power numbers suggests that the problem is part in your legs, part in your head. it sounds like you're thinking "Jeebus, this is the thing I suck at." Visualization will help.

    And, I can't say this enough, this is the downside to losing weight. You lost it too fast and your body ate some of your muscles. 15/15s will help get it back. If you plan on losing more, do it with the help of a doctor or nutritionist.

    I also suggest riding with someone faster than you while you do them. The urge to catch will keep you

  12. #12
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,042
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    OP, When that happens to me it's generally because I'm already on/near my limit anyway. If that's the case, then 15s power ain't the issue... raising your limit is. Is that what's going on here?

    Nevertheless... 15/15 or 20/10's as stated above are the answer.

    (btw, yes, they are the answer to almost any question... do them and you will understand, grasshopper).

  13. #13
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i would help you, but i think you saw what happened tuesday night. i borrowed slone's p tap for a lap after the race. max power that i could muster was 805. suxxorz.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    490
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's also a mental thing for some - if you don't give it your all to stick with the pack through those accelerations, you're dropped. The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Super_Socks
    This has to be the most ingenious training regimen ever devised.

  15. #15
    Pedalphile
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest increasing FTP.

  16. #16
    bf is my facebook. ljrichar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    1,146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyInstantRice View Post
    The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.
    Incorrect.

  17. #17
    Cat WTF
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,297
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyInstantRice View Post
    The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.

    I seriously doubt that.

  18. #18
    elitist jerk daytonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Blow - hio
    My Bikes
    CAAD9
    Posts
    4,186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
    Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
    gotta really watch the wheel your on in the A's. jmho there were about 5 guys that should've been in B's and would crack every 3-4 laps (gapped with 2 or 3 behind them) and then get back on mid pack only to take a few good men with them again.
    I feel like a soiled kleenex dropped in the gutter in the red-light district of Paris.

  19. #19
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonian View Post
    gotta really watch the wheel your on in the A's. jmho there were about 5 guys that should've been in B's and would crack every 3-4 laps (gapped with 2 or 3 behind them) and then get back on mid pack only to take a few good men with them again.
    wasn't me.

    actually, it probably was. i don't think i cost people gaps, but if so, i apologize. i sucked bad on tuesday, but i tried to mitigate damage by:

    1. when i latched on to field, i did it from the very back, so as not to interfere with strongbads and after the first time i dropped, i stayed in the back.
    2. whenever i was going to drop, i made sure that i closed down any gap and put up a hand signaling that i was going to drop. i then went straight in the turn (3 or 4) to keep out of everyone's line.
    3. i was only dropped twice before i threw/gave up and just cruised, staying out of everyone's way.
    4. i manned the finish.


  20. #20
    elitist jerk daytonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Blow - hio
    My Bikes
    CAAD9
    Posts
    4,186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
    wasn't me.

    actually, it probably was. i don't think i cost people gaps, but if so, i apologize. i sucked bad on tuesday, but i tried to mitigate damage by:

    1. when i latched on to field, i did it from the very back, so as not to interfere with strongbads and after the first time i dropped, i stayed in the back.
    2. whenever i was going to drop, i made sure that i closed down any gap and put up a hand signaling that i was going to drop. i then went straight in the turn (3 or 4) to keep out of everyone's line.
    3. i was only dropped twice before i threw/gave up and just cruised, staying out of everyone's way.
    4. i manned the finish.

    who was on the front turning the screws so hard?
    I feel like a soiled kleenex dropped in the gutter in the red-light district of Paris.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beavercreek, OH
    Posts
    493
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by daytonian View Post
    who was on the front turning the screws so hard?
    This past Tue., it was Kyle, Rodney and Ryan V. With Jim jumping in there too. It hurt.

  22. #22
    wavylines
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Bull City
    Posts
    546
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne View Post
    This past Tue., it was Kyle, Rodney and Ryan V. With Jim jumping in there too. It hurt.
    Do me a favor and tell those guys it was great racing with them these last two years!

    IIRC, you ride with a PT, no? So what was your power like when you got dropped vs. what you can do in training? That would isolate whether the problem is 10-20 second power or what came before the 10-20 seconds.
    At least I offer my own disaster.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beavercreek, OH
    Posts
    493
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by curveship View Post
    Do me a favor and tell those guys it was great racing with them these last two years!
    Will do.

    For my part, I know why I got dropped. I simply not fast enough to keep up with cat 2's for a 50 min. crit. Even if they're only new cat 2's. I'll will get faster by trying though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •