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Old 05-21-08, 10:41 AM   #1
cat4ever
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Raising 10-20 second power (tips needed)

What are some tips for increasing 10-20 second power? My serious limiter is not being able to handle pack surges or attacks. I go out and get dropped at every opportunity just so I can work on short term power.

My one minute power is greater than last year by 5%, five minute power up by 3%, 15 minute power level with a weight loss of 10-15 pounds from last year. 20 second power is DOWN 25%!
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Old 05-21-08, 10:45 AM   #2
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I do lots of 15s/15s. 15 seconds on at full power, 15 seconds off while spinning. Repeat many times. Recover for a bit, then do it all over again.
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Old 05-21-08, 10:49 AM   #3
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If you do a search here for "sprint workouts," you'll find several good ones.

You might consider concentrating on anaerobic work capacity as well through 1-2m intervals. If you do them all-out from the beginning, you'll be building sprint strength, then you' you just keep hammering until the time is up.
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Old 05-21-08, 10:51 AM   #4
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My serious limiter is not being able to handle pack surges or attacks. I go out and get dropped at every opportunity just so I can work on short term power.
Do you get out-accelerated or do you get dropped right after the surge? It is likely that you need more short high intensity intervals so you can work on your recovery after a surge, not just the actual max power values.
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Old 05-21-08, 11:00 AM   #5
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Do you get out-accelerated or do you get dropped right after the surge?
Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
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Old 05-21-08, 11:01 AM   #6
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Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
Well then, grow some guads.
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Old 05-21-08, 11:17 AM   #7
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15s on, 15s off. See stars.
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Old 05-21-08, 11:58 AM   #8
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good tips, thus far. ^^^^

I'd also add that technique and pack placement is key. Being in the back 1/3 of the field is a recipe for dropped-ness. Surges are amplified by the accordion effect making it even harder to stay attached.
Additionally, being towards the front of the pack gives you a little leeway if you cant quite handle the acceleration and you need to fade backwards.

Also, learning to read the field a bit and anticipate surges will help. Be ready for the surge, have a good wheel and HOLD IT!! dont let that 6'6" dude you're drafting get away! Put it all out there initially to hold the wheel and you'll reap the benefits of the draft and probably work less hard in the process. Be ready and hit it hard!


This doesnt get you off the hook for those 15s on/ 15s off intervals, though!!!


-Leo
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Old 05-21-08, 12:19 PM   #9
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Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
What you describe appears to me is a positioning and awareness issue - you're not riding close enough to the wheel in front of you and you arent "anticipating" what is happening in the situation where you're being dropped. Take care of those and you dont need to worry about increasing your short term max efforts (which most of the reading I've done on teh innernets as well as my own observations suggest that these are fairly fixed and do not improve appreciably through training).

As for why we do 15s on/15s off, my understanding is it's more to practice the recovery and repeatability of the demands these efforts place on us rather than improving the absolute max power that we can generate for a 15s or other short duration.
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Old 05-21-08, 12:29 PM   #10
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As for why we do 15s on/15s off, my understanding is it's more to practice the recovery and repeatability of the demands these efforts place on us rather than improving the absolute max power that we can generate for a 15s or other short duration.
Spot on. It's about adaptation. But that doesn't mean your 15s on should be a cake walk.
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Old 05-21-08, 12:32 PM   #11
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The divergence in your power numbers suggests that the problem is part in your legs, part in your head. it sounds like you're thinking "Jeebus, this is the thing I suck at." Visualization will help.

And, I can't say this enough, this is the downside to losing weight. You lost it too fast and your body ate some of your muscles. 15/15s will help get it back. If you plan on losing more, do it with the help of a doctor or nutritionist.

I also suggest riding with someone faster than you while you do them. The urge to catch will keep you
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Old 05-21-08, 05:45 PM   #12
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OP, When that happens to me it's generally because I'm already on/near my limit anyway. If that's the case, then 15s power ain't the issue... raising your limit is. Is that what's going on here?

Nevertheless... 15/15 or 20/10's as stated above are the answer.

(btw, yes, they are the answer to almost any question... do them and you will understand, grasshopper).
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Old 05-21-08, 06:14 PM   #13
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i would help you, but i think you saw what happened tuesday night. i borrowed slone's p tap for a lap after the race. max power that i could muster was 805. suxxorz.
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Old 05-21-08, 10:36 PM   #14
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It's also a mental thing for some - if you don't give it your all to stick with the pack through those accelerations, you're dropped. The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.
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Old 05-21-08, 10:52 PM   #15
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I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest increasing FTP.
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Old 05-22-08, 06:00 AM   #16
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The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.
Incorrect.
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Old 05-22-08, 06:47 AM   #17
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The thing to remember is that they're suffering just as much as you.

I seriously doubt that.
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Old 05-22-08, 07:14 AM   #18
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Out accelerated, causing a gap. Attempting to bridge results in the drop.
gotta really watch the wheel your on in the A's. jmho there were about 5 guys that should've been in B's and would crack every 3-4 laps (gapped with 2 or 3 behind them) and then get back on mid pack only to take a few good men with them again.
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Old 05-22-08, 09:02 AM   #19
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gotta really watch the wheel your on in the A's. jmho there were about 5 guys that should've been in B's and would crack every 3-4 laps (gapped with 2 or 3 behind them) and then get back on mid pack only to take a few good men with them again.
wasn't me.

actually, it probably was. i don't think i cost people gaps, but if so, i apologize. i sucked bad on tuesday, but i tried to mitigate damage by:

1. when i latched on to field, i did it from the very back, so as not to interfere with strongbads and after the first time i dropped, i stayed in the back.
2. whenever i was going to drop, i made sure that i closed down any gap and put up a hand signaling that i was going to drop. i then went straight in the turn (3 or 4) to keep out of everyone's line.
3. i was only dropped twice before i threw/gave up and just cruised, staying out of everyone's way.
4. i manned the finish.

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Old 05-22-08, 10:02 AM   #20
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wasn't me.

actually, it probably was. i don't think i cost people gaps, but if so, i apologize. i sucked bad on tuesday, but i tried to mitigate damage by:

1. when i latched on to field, i did it from the very back, so as not to interfere with strongbads and after the first time i dropped, i stayed in the back.
2. whenever i was going to drop, i made sure that i closed down any gap and put up a hand signaling that i was going to drop. i then went straight in the turn (3 or 4) to keep out of everyone's line.
3. i was only dropped twice before i threw/gave up and just cruised, staying out of everyone's way.
4. i manned the finish.

who was on the front turning the screws so hard?
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Old 05-22-08, 10:38 AM   #21
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who was on the front turning the screws so hard?
This past Tue., it was Kyle, Rodney and Ryan V. With Jim jumping in there too. It hurt.
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Old 05-22-08, 11:58 AM   #22
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This past Tue., it was Kyle, Rodney and Ryan V. With Jim jumping in there too. It hurt.
Do me a favor and tell those guys it was great racing with them these last two years!

IIRC, you ride with a PT, no? So what was your power like when you got dropped vs. what you can do in training? That would isolate whether the problem is 10-20 second power or what came before the 10-20 seconds.
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Old 05-22-08, 12:46 PM   #23
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Do me a favor and tell those guys it was great racing with them these last two years!
Will do.

For my part, I know why I got dropped. I simply not fast enough to keep up with cat 2's for a 50 min. crit. Even if they're only new cat 2's. I'll will get faster by trying though.
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