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  1. #151
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining View Post
    i think i actually produce more power on my tt rig then on my road bike. it's weird
    Okay, so I'm not the only one. I'm definitely trying out coaching to see if they can help. I'm pretty sure they can, just gotta find the right one. Ride on!

  2. #152
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    I've been trying to figure out this power variance between TT and Road riding. I'm starting to think the work on center of gravity might be a factor for me. My elementary understanding is that body position affects where the power stroke is and maybe I generate more power in that band in my TT position than the technique I'm using in the regular road position.

    I think this has something to do with more of my body being over the downward portion of the stroke so I'm using more body weight to resist the upward force of my legs.

    The good news is I can probably alter my pedaling technique on the road to generate more power by driving earlier in the stroke. I am definitely going to pay more attention to metabolic costs of different pedaling techniques, foot position, etc. Lot's of testing to do but I'm hopeful. Here's some resources.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html


    Last edited by kleinboogie; 03-02-11 at 08:53 AM.

  3. #153
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    I'd like some guidance on 180 turn arounds. The one on the race course this weekend doesn't seem to be wider than 2.5 lanes wide. I've been practicing, but can't get above 14mph entering and when i exit out, i'm leaving at 11mph. Any tips on rounding the stupid thing faster? The TT i will be doing is prologue-length at 2.2miles. I somehow think the turnaround will determine the winner...
    Last edited by echappist; 03-02-11 at 04:42 PM.

  4. #154
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    ^let me know what you find out... I always suck at turn arounds. The only thing that helps me is to make sure I am in the correct gear for the acceleration before I make the turn and then just don't crash while making the turn.

    on another note, I am finding it difficult to find nice traffic free roads where I can stay in the aero bars for extended periods of time at full power. I have gotten to the point where I just started doing hill repeats/extended periods of climbing while in the aero bars. I am wondering if this will help my technique for putting down the same power on flat roads? my cadence is usually quite a bit lower going up hill vs flat (similar power) and while climbing I find myself gripping the aero bars a lot tighter

  5. #155
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danahs View Post
    ^let me know what you find out... I always suck at turn arounds. The only thing that helps me is to make sure I am in the correct gear for the acceleration before I make the turn and then just don't crash while making the turn.

    on another note, I am finding it difficult to find nice traffic free roads where I can stay in the aero bars for extended periods of time at full power. I have gotten to the point where I just started doing hill repeats/extended periods of climbing while in the aero bars. I am wondering if this will help my technique for putting down the same power on flat roads? my cadence is usually quite a bit lower going up hill vs flat (similar power) and while climbing I find myself gripping the aero bars a lot tighter
    i love doing hill repeats in the aero bars.

  6. #156
    comin' in hot James1:17's Avatar
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    Here's a question. I want to start time trial racing and I have read this whole thread. A couple of posts came close to answering my question but not fully. I'm boggled -as are most newbs with regard to any discipline- with all the info I've been reading and the equipment cost I'll likely encounter. Let's say I scraaape enough dough to buy an entry level/pre-owned committed TT bike and associated kit (skinsuit, helmet, covers). What next? Can the OP or other TT vets put these items in order of importance to them personally? Or what would you buy first if you had to buy one item at a time and spend a while saving in between?

    1. Power meter.
    2. Nice head unit such as 705.
    3. Aero wheels such as disc/tri-spoke front or disc/deep-section front combos.
    4. Any other items you find necessary or important.

    Thanks!
    smooth and fast?

  7. #157
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    All that's necessary or important is a will to suffer and a bike with two wheels and some pedals.

    Next: aerobars

    Next: skinsuit (you can argue that this should be "helmet", but you'll look like a tri-nerd in regular road jersey/bibs and aero helmet)

    Next: TT bike (for the body position opportunities; you'll tend to be too upright on a regular road bike)

    Next: helmet

    Next: deep dish wheels (at least the front wheel)

    Next: disk wheel

    The powermeter is a training device primarily. It is useful, some would say extremely useful, but not necessary. Ditto the 705.

    Happily, this list is more or less in the order of cost. Now, if you had infinite money, then go all out and buy everything. That said, it's usually more cost efficient to just slam the stem and put aerobars on your bike with, perhaps, a triathlon (forward offset) seatpost and TT saddle and leave it at that until you are placing somewhere mid-upper pack.
    Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 03-12-11 at 11:43 AM.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  8. #158
    comin' in hot James1:17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    All that's necessary or important is a will to suffer and a bike with two wheels and some pedals.
    check. Thanks for your input.
    smooth and fast?

  9. #159
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    Does anyone know a source for aluminum TT frames? Leader seems to have hit the wall.

  10. #160
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderLake View Post
    Does anyone know a source for aluminum TT frames? Leader seems to have hit the wall.
    ebay, you can probably find a few aluminum p3s for next to nothing.

  11. #161
    impressive member badhat's Avatar
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    i just bought an aluminum 2009 jamis trilogy for a song. they discontinued them in favor of thier carbon line.

    its a really sold entry level TT bike with some nice features like nice aero tube shapes, concealed brakes, decent easton vista SL training wheels, rear dropouts in the back for adjustable wheelbase.
    Your Group Ride:Your guide to getting dropped in Northern Colorado

  12. #162
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    anyone know if it possible to rent a zipp 1080 front wheel? i only need it for one race and I am trying to decide what is the most cost effective way to get one for the race

  13. #163
    Senior Member jsutkeepspining's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danahs View Post
    anyone know if it possible to rent a zipp 1080 front wheel? i only need it for one race and I am trying to decide what is the most cost effective way to get one for the race
    i know trisports offers demo wheels, i dont know if they offer 1080's but i do think they offer 808's and other zipps (including disk wheels).

  14. #164
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    talk to these people. They rent out wheelsets, and probably can do single wheels.

  15. #165
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Got a few questions:

    -Can someone shed more light on what's a good aero-bar? I assume the base should be shaped like an air-foil. What else should i look for and at what point is it "too heavy?" I may just slap one onto my road bike for a few TT's this summer.

    -The newer bikes such as high end Scott, BMC, and Felt have the "integrated" stem which covers up quite a bit of the rough surfaces. How big of a difference do they make?

    -Also, as much as i dislike ergo bend bars, 3T makes the Zefiro with integrated arm rest. What are people's take on these and would i get as much a time saving?

    Here's Davie Sprockets on them



    Quote Originally Posted by danahs View Post
    ^let me know what you find out... I always suck at turn arounds. The only thing that helps me is to make sure I am in the correct gear for the acceleration before I make the turn and then just don't crash while making the turn.
    opps. Sorry to have gotten back to you nearly two months after the fact. I've done 3 TT's since then. 2 ITT with on two-lane highways and one TTT on a four-lane highway. For the ITT, the speed i'm carry through at the lowest point was actually an abysmal 8.5mph on both occasions, but it was about 13 seconds from braking to first pedal stroke and about 23 seconds to get fully up to speed.

    For the TTT, it was 12 seconds from braking to first pedal motion and 20 seconds to get fully up to speed. It helps that the lowest speed through the turn was 12mph.

    Still need to work on both, obviously.

  16. #166
    VeloSIRraptor
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    hmmm - re-reading this thread reminds me that I need to take another hard look at my cable routing.
    Leaving enough cable for positional adjustments meant I had lots of stuff flapping in the wind - position is much better now, so I gotta trim/secure/shorten all that stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  17. #167
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edonis13 View Post
    leg hair and aerodynamics.

    discuss.
    I refuse to shave my legs unless I'm racing for the national title and someone proves me it can make me win

  18. #168
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    I definately have this.
    There is an optimal temperature at which I have more power and then there is either too cold or too hot.
    I'm pretty sure it has to do with oxygen in the air and also with the body heat regulation system consuming energy.
    Also: do not eat a huge bag of fries with mayonaise just before you ride out!

  19. #169
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Saw this and thought i should share it:

    Note. Blatantly lifted from this thread on slowtwitch

  20. #170
    Senior Member forrest_m's Avatar
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    Was reminded yesterday about how important little things are. I did two back-to-back training runs in preparation for an upcoming 8.5 km TT. The section of road I used went 6 km in one direction, a turnaround, then 2.5 km back; it's basically flat and has heavy trees on both sides of the road, so the air is quite still. I rode back to the same start point for the second run.

    The first run was marred by two moments where (due to traffic), I had to stop pedaling for 2-3 seconds, brake a tiny bit, then stand up to hammer back up to speed. On the second run, my turnaround was noticeably smoother and faster. In every other respect, the two runs were as identical as I could make them.

    So here's the kicker. The first run had an average power of 267W; on the second, it dropped to 250 (only 10 min rest between the two). However, the average SPEED of the second run was .1 mph FASTER than the first one. That is, two short bobbles and a slow turnaround were enough to erase a 17 watt difference in power. Per the power calculator, the first run should have been 20 seconds faster, not 2 seconds slower! Food for thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets
    If you think you're going as hard as you can, you need to go harder. Double your effort at that point. Then go a bit harder, and try to ramp it up from there.

  21. #171
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link to that power calculator, forrest_m ... handy tool

    McJimbo, what do they mean by "covered 30 mm alloy rim" in that graph?
    It seems to be on par with the zipp wheels and even outperforms them at 20 degrees.
    Last edited by AdelaaR; 05-15-11 at 07:46 AM.

  22. #172
    Senior Member?
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    It's a plastic disc cover on an aluminum rim. Note that the publisher of the data is the manufacturer and retailer of the cover: wheelbuilder.com

  23. #173
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    mmm ... those covers do seem interesting indeed.
    Offer the same aero and about the same weight at a fraction of the cost.

    Anyone got some experience with those things to share?

  24. #174
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    Yes.

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post10750523

    road bike, clip-on's, wheelbuilder disc cover, giro advantage 2 helmet, skinsuit and shoe covers.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  25. #175
    Senior Member volosong's Avatar
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    I'm just wondering. There is a TT held in the area every year and I wondered how I would do in my age division. Next year, I can enter the "walking cane - grandfather's" division and this morning I went out with my road bike to ride the course. Just wanted to see how competitive I would be, (or how much I stink), by comparing my time today with last year's posted results. I also rode a couple hours later in the day than my division would ride, so the wind was a factor in my time, (but for now, we can disregard that factor).

    Just in general, as a wild approximation, over the course of a 23.2 mile, (37.3 km) ITT, assuming the same level of effort as today, how many minutes do you think I could deduct from my time today if I were riding a TT bike with a skin suit, aero helmet and shoe covers, (and sans a round water bottle and the "wipe my forehead" rolled up rag in the other bottle carrier)?

    (I've ordered an entry-level TT bike, for general fitness purposes, but would like to know if I should seriously consider training for an ITT. If I could finish in the top half, I'd be satisfied.)

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