Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-29-08, 12:56 PM   #1
carlfreddy
Acquiring new target....
Thread Starter
 
carlfreddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Bikes: Trek XO-1, Gary Fisher Rig
Posts: 1,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Carbon Wheels and brake pads, the real story?

Now that I actually have a set of carbon wheels I've become a bit more concerned with brake pads.

The consensus here on BF seems to be that if you have carbon wheels you *must* run cork pads, but BF-opinions are like a**holes, everybody has them and they all smell.

I understand the need to keep whatever brake pads you're running clean and free of debris whilst using carbon wheels, but will rubber pads (that are clean) actually damage carbon wheels?

The wrenches at the LBS where I work (just started this week, w00h00 Employee Purchase!) swear that using rubber pads is fine if you're ok with the "pulsing" action.

My Cat1 friend says that he rocked rubber pads all last season (he has Aeolus 6.5s) and just cleaned/sanded the pads when switching between aluminum and carbon wheels. But he also races every weekend, and this season he's rockin' cork pads.

So, is it *really* necessary that I get a pair of cork pads specifically for my carbon wheels, and change pads every time I change wheels? Can't I just run cork or rubber pads all season and sand/clean the pads anytime I switch to my carbon wheels (which is only when I race)?
carlfreddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 12:59 PM   #2
dmotoguy
Edificating
 
dmotoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Bikes: Spooky + Sachs
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I run the zipp pads that are good on either alum or carbon.. I havent had any issues in a little over a year of switching back and forth.. I just wipe off the pads when I make the change.. they have good bite on the carbon, fair on the alum.

dmotoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 01:03 PM   #3
ldesfor1@ithaca
Senior Member
 
ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Newton Ctr. MA
Bikes: 2 cdale Caad7. Scatantte CX/winter bike. SS commuter.
Posts: 2,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd rather not gamble with my silly-expensive wheels.

The coolstop yellows I'm running stop the bike with such ease that I'm happy to have these pads if for no other reason than their stopping powah.

-L

Last edited by ldesfor1@ithaca; 05-29-08 at 01:16 PM.
ldesfor1@ithaca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 01:22 PM   #4
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Leonard Zinn did an article on this subject on Velonews.com. Go search their site and he'll give you the scoop. Bottom line, run carbon specific pads. As for the Zipps going both ways, I won't run the pads I use on my al wheels on my carbon wheels due to the fact that they pick small pieces of al and can damage the carbon wheels. I bought some spare brake pad holders and just swap out the whole unit when I run the carbon wheels. This takes about 5 minutes and is worth just for the piece of mind, my carbon wheels weren't cheap!
El Diablo Rojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 01:31 PM   #5
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
Leonard Zinn did an article on this subject on Velonews.com. Go search their site and he'll give you the scoop. Bottom line, run carbon specific pads. As for the Zipps going both ways, I won't run the pads I use on my al wheels on my carbon wheels due to the fact that they pick small pieces of al and can damage the carbon wheels. I bought some spare brake pad holders and just swap out the whole unit when I run the carbon wheels. This takes about 5 minutes and is worth just for the piece of mind, my carbon wheels weren't cheap!
Takes less than 1 minute to just switch the brake pad instead.....
wfrogge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 01:32 PM   #6
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I run SwissStop Yellow. The Zipp pads that I originally used lacked both grip and durability.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 01:41 PM   #7
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu
Posts: 11,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfrogge View Post
Takes less than 1 minute to just switch the brake pad instead.....
You can R&R all four of your brake pads in one minute? Man you are good. I find it easier to just remove the bolt and put in the new holder.
El Diablo Rojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 02:25 PM   #8
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlfreddy View Post
Now that I actually have a set of carbon wheels I've become a bit more concerned with brake pads.

The consensus here on BF seems to be that if you have carbon wheels you *must* run cork pads, but BF-opinions are like a**holes, everybody has them and they all smell.

I understand the need to keep whatever brake pads you're running clean and free of debris whilst using carbon wheels, but will rubber pads (that are clean) actually damage carbon wheels?

The wrenches at the LBS where I work (just started this week, w00h00 Employee Purchase!) swear that using rubber pads is fine if you're ok with the "pulsing" action.

My Cat1 friend says that he rocked rubber pads all last season (he has Aeolus 6.5s) and just cleaned/sanded the pads when switching between aluminum and carbon wheels. But he also races every weekend, and this season he's rockin' cork pads.

So, is it *really* necessary that I get a pair of cork pads specifically for my carbon wheels, and change pads every time I change wheels? Can't I just run cork or rubber pads all season and sand/clean the pads anytime I switch to my carbon wheels (which is only when I race)?
I have Reynolds wheels, and they say specifically to not use cork pads. I use SwissStop Yellow King Race 2000 pads, designed for Carbon wheels and they work great. I was swapping pads out for aluminum wheels, but now I just clean them when I put my carbons on.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 02:49 PM   #9
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Bikes:
Posts: 12,481
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Kool Stop carbon specific on most of mine, manufacturer provided in the other. None of them are cork. On the rear brakes I usually run the Kool Stop salmon/black combo pads, I like the decreased stopping power on the rear for better modulation.
Racer Ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 03:33 PM   #10
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
You can R&R all four of your brake pads in one minute? Man you are good. I find it easier to just remove the bolt and put in the new holder.
Yeah..... wasnt trying to be a forum prick (this time). Have tried it both ways and find it easier to just switch just the pads. Def agree that its a big risk to run the same pads on both alum and carbon rims....
wfrogge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 03:58 PM   #11
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
Posts: 28,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfrogge View Post
Yeah..... wasnt trying to be a forum prick (this time). Have tried it both ways and find it easier to just switch just the pads. Def agree that its a big risk to run the same pads on both alum and carbon rims....
It depends on the brakes you have I guess. I have zero-g's and the pads are near impossible to change. I just got spare holders and swapped out the whole thing.
umd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 04:33 PM   #12
ericm979
Senior Member
 
ericm979's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains
Bikes:
Posts: 6,170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it depends on the carbon rims. The LBS owner I ride with often has a set of Bontrager carbon wheels and had their cork pads work well and last for a couple years.

Reynolds says only Kool-stop or Swissstop, nothing else. And when I tried the Koolstops they shredded during a single ride with no descents to speak of. A club-mate had a set of Reynolds rims delaminate and they asked him to send back the brake pads he was using in addition to the wheels, so it sounds like they take their pad recommendations seriously.
ericm979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 08:05 PM   #13
Stallionforce
Senior Member
 
Stallionforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Victoria
Bikes: 05 Norco CRR Team Carbon Dura Ace, 06 Cervelo P2C TT Dura Ace, 88 Olmo Steelie w. Campy Mirage, Cypress CX w. 105
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmotoguy View Post
I run the zipp pads that are good on either alum or carbon.. I havent had any issues in a little over a year of switching back and forth.. I just wipe off the pads when I make the change.. they have good bite on the carbon, fair on the alum.

+1 Zipp pads

Expensive, but worth the $ if you're running carbon and aluminum braking surfaces. Just make sure after you use your training wheels that the pads are free from any metal debris -- even the slightest trace will gouge your precious carbon rims.

Funny story: I bought a pair of Reynolds Attacks last year through a club deal and they came with cork brake pads. I then read on their website that they would not honour damage/crash replacement if the rider had been using cork pads.
__________________
I'd be doing myself, and you guys, a disservice if I didn't ride the hell out of this thing!
Stallionforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 08:53 PM   #14
tnor
Senior Member
 
tnor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
I run SwissStop Yellow. The Zipp pads that I originally used lacked both grip and durability.
+1 I was running cork pads but switched to the SwissStop Yellow's. They have a little bit better braking power than the cork pads. They also say that they can be used with both carbon and aluuminium wheel's but I wouldn't risk it. If you do end up running them between 2 set's of wheels I would MAKE SURE they're clean and re-surface them with a bit of sandpaper.
tnor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 09:15 PM   #15
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Bikes:
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
with as expensive as the wheels are, I switch out the pads. Maybe not one minute, but certainly no more than three (it is exactly four turns for me and I never cinch the screw tightly...heck, campy doesn't even USE a screw, so they can't be THAT important unless you are often braking while going backwards).

I have used Kool Stop and Zipp, and I like them both...whatever I can get on sale.
DrWJODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 09:50 PM   #16
KendallF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This thread prompts me to mention that while I love my new Vuelta 50 mm tubulars (the group buy wheels), the pads included with them SUCK. They grab and chatter if you try to modulate them at all, and squeal (although the squealing comes and goes, weirdly). They look like cork to me (brown, fairly hard).

So boil this down for me: which Kool Stop pads work well in the wet, will modulate, and won't squeal?
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-08, 10:12 PM   #17
urbanknight
In beaurocratic limbo
 
urbanknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
Posts: 22,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With all the annoying noises I hear in packs with carbon rims and the bother of changing pads, I'm going to be a die hard fan of aluminum rims for years.
urbanknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-08, 05:50 AM   #18
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
I have Reynolds carbon wheels.

For a few years I raced and sometimes trained on my tubulars without changing pads (Ultegra calipers with OEM Ultegra pads). When I started looking for some matching clinchers, I saw a lot of notes in descriptions re: "no brake pad wear". I checked my tubulars. Arg, brake pad wear. Luckily it was winter.

I got some clinchers and got some SwissStops (after reading CyclingNews's review on Reynolds before and after the SS pads).

If you have Campy pad holders, you use a small screwdriver, insert behind brake pad from rear, twist. Pad pops out. Slide new pad in, tap into place. Takes a couple minutes to do all four, including balancing the bike if you don't have a stand (you have to take the wheels off, sort of).

For the OP, since you work at a bike shop, the pads won't cost you too much. And you'll have a stand to use when you swap back and forth. I bet you can get the pad swap down to under 60 seconds

cdr

Last edited by carpediemracing; 06-07-08 at 08:48 PM. Reason: I put break for brake. Unbelievable.
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-08, 06:55 AM   #19
nitropowered
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Posts: 5,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by umd View Post
It depends on the brakes you have I guess. I have zero-g's and the pads are near impossible to change. I just got spare holders and swapped out the whole thing.
Same with Campy holders. When I had carbon wheels, I changed out the whole unit. A lot easier that way. Shimano holders are easier that you can slide the pads in and out but you may still have to adjust them anyway. I'd still just change out the whole unit.

As far as pads, I've tried Zipp and Kool Stop Carbon. They both work really well. I've also used standard rubber koolstop pads and they work too but a little more grabby (on/off). I've heard that Swiss Stop Yellow is also very good (but very expensive)
nitropowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-08, 06:13 PM   #20
shapelike
Don't smoke, Mike.
 
shapelike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Bikes: Devinci Tosca, IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 3,295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallionforce View Post
Funny story: I bought a pair of Reynolds Attacks last year through a club deal and they came with cork brake pads. I then read on their website that they would not honour damage/crash replacement if the rider had been using cork pads.
My cyclocross bike came with Aksiums and the Mavic fine print explicitly mentions no 'cross racing if you expect to have warranty coverage. I guess bike manufacturers just fudge the books or take a hit on any RA'd Aksium wheels from 'cross bikes? *shrugs*
shapelike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-08, 12:44 AM   #21
bassplayinbiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kansas City
Bikes: Diamondback centurion. Home built tandem
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
expensive/ painful lessons only have to be taught once....
bassplayinbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-08, 05:55 AM   #22
carlfreddy
Acquiring new target....
Thread Starter
 
carlfreddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Bikes: Trek XO-1, Gary Fisher Rig
Posts: 1,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinbiker View Post
expensive/ painful lessons only have to be taught once....
I thought you were done with all of this?



Thanks for all your input guys!
carlfreddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.