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  1. #1
    seppomadness
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    Race radioes revisited....

    So we have some concrete evidence of the intelligence of the pro peloton now.

    It would appear 30% can read, write and understand tactics. 70% still sniff their toilet paper after wiping their arse to see if it stinks.

    Ofcourse the majority of them want radioes. Why would they put their hand up for more responsibility and performance risk. Safety my arse.

    The sport will be better off if we can find more ways to legitimately differentiate performance levels. Intelligence under extreme fatigue/pressure would be a good place to start.

  2. #2
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Radios ruined the breakaway by letting a laptop using telemetry specialist dictate what the riders do. I think once on the road the team should be left to ride. Team cars/domestiques ... should just yell back and forth, and the team leaders should whip their boys up in the peleton. IMHO too much data has been taking the excitement out of it for some while now.

  3. #3
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    If its for safety, let them have radios, Have one channel for all of the riders. They could get updates on time splits or just info on upcoming obsticles or dangerous situations etc.
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    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Hey ...that's a interesting twist... Race org braodcasts. hmmmm that's got some possible legs.

  5. #5
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmotoguy View Post
    If its for safety, let them have radios, Have one channel for all of the riders. They could get updates on time splits or just info on upcoming obsticles or dangerous situations etc.
    Excellent point. I had overlooked this to be honest. Just link them into the radio hookups used in the media pack and commissaries cavalcade. Riders only get a broadcast for emergency and obsticles etc (time splits only given every 30 mins by the comm).

  6. #6
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
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    Although I'd love to give the breakaways more of a chance, it'll be tough to manage with live television broadcasts.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

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  7. #7
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post
    Excellent point. I had overlooked this to be honest. Just link them into the radio hookups used in the media pack and commissaries cavalcade. Riders only get a broadcast for emergency and obsticles etc (time splits only given every 30 mins by the comm).
    Why only 30 minutes? Where possible, when I was a moto official, we would routinely give time splits. Even nicer if you have someone who could write it down for the racers.

    I just don't see the big deal. I'm trying to envision what really changes with no race radios. Instead of waiting until the last minute to chase down a break, you might have to do it earlier? Instead of using the radio, someone drops back more often to the team car, then tires to relate that message to his teammates in the peloton? The sport has changed. Eliminating radios will not eliminate the ability to time chases appropriately, or even to find out what's going on up the road, unless you ban all communication with team cars, and/or eliminate information on the race radion from the DS.

    As far as boring, it is still the case that on the right day, one rider can still blow up the GC in a grand tour.

  8. #8
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    There's got to be a way to block the feed in the immediate race area....
    Do folks watch the races approach on portable tv's? hmm tricky spanner in the works.

  9. #9
    seppomadness
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    Voigt wins on INSTINCT.

    Directeur Sportif Kim Anderson may have not agreed with the timing of the manoeuvre, but Voigt had two good reasons to stage such an outrageous coup: Paolo Bettini and three-time stage winner Daniele Bennati (Liquigas), the maglia ciclamino in this Giro d'Italia.

    Guy in his ear telling him what he should do. Jens says fark off I know what it takes to win in this situation.

    Thats what we want to see. Risk taking. Riders backing a belief in how they feel and what they believe to be true. Not what science is calculating in his ear.

    Removing race radioees enshrines and empowers the spirit of the sport and men like Jens Voigt.
    Last edited by seppomadness; 05-30-08 at 10:49 AM.

  10. #10
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    I just don't see the big deal. I'm trying to envision what really changes with no race radios. Instead of waiting until the last minute to chase down a break, you might have to do it earlier? Instead of using the radio, someone drops back more often to the team car, then tires to relate that message to his teammates in the peloton?
    Dont think too hard.

    How long does it take to send a rider back to the team car to obtain critical information and then to disseminate that information to all your teammates in the peloton?

    Long enough to allow an interesting breakaway to develop in an otherwise dull flat stage of a GT.

    Panic in the bunch is good viewing.
    Last edited by seppomadness; 05-30-08 at 11:06 AM.

  11. #11
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    +1 .. watching the peloton freaking out trying desperately to catch the break they thought would burn out are some of the best races i've ever watched. To be told ... no just up your speed another 5kph and you'll get him within 5k of the finish, bah.

  12. #12
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Geez, you make it sound like riders don't know to chase an attack by a GC contender without approval from their DS. I don't think that is the case. Let's take the tour last year. Contador didn't need a voice in his ear to tell him to chase any attack by Evans. In today's stage, Contador knew who his threats were (and weren't).

    Guys like Voight are going to attack regardless. Anyone who isn't willing to ignore some of the advice in the ear is unlikely to be willing to buck team orders from before the race.

  13. #13
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    Geez, you make it sound like riders don't know to chase an attack by a GC contender without approval from their DS. I don't think that is the case. Let's take the tour last year. Contador didn't need a voice in his ear to tell him to chase any attack by Evans. In today's stage, Contador knew who his threats were (and weren't).

    Guys like Voight are going to attack regardless. Anyone who isn't willing to ignore some of the advice in the ear is unlikely to be willing to buck team orders from before the race.
    And all this insight based on what? Your 11 mile commute to work? Be realistic.

    Intellectual flyweights shouldn't get involved in RBR. Stick to the road forum.

  14. #14
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Since you asked, I raced in the past and was an official (both finish line and moto). If you want to go down that irrelevant path, your experience with race radios at the professional level is based on what?

    The use of insult and questioning of authority does not actually answer my points, by the way. There are good refutations to my points. This is not one of them.

  15. #15
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    Since you asked, I raced in the past and was an official (both finish line and moto). If you want to go down that irrelevant path, your experience with race radios at the professional level is based on what?

    The use of insult and questioning of authority
    does not actually answer my points, by the way. There are good refutations to my points. This is not one of them.
    You made a point?

    Ok ok I will be honest. I didnt read it. I bundled you into the "child with special needs" basket after your first post.

  16. #16
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post
    You made a point?

    Ok ok I will be honest. I didnt read it. I bundled you into the "child with special needs" basket after your first post.
    Well I do post here and respond to trolls, so the criticism is probably apt.

  17. #17
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    Geez, you make it sound like riders don't know to chase an attack by a GC contender without approval from their DS. I don't think that is the case. Let's take the tour last year. Contador didn't need a voice in his ear to tell him to chase any attack by Evans. In today's stage, Contador knew who his threats were (and weren't).

    Guys like Voight are going to attack regardless. Anyone who isn't willing to ignore some of the advice in the ear is unlikely to be willing to buck team orders from before the race.
    compare breakaway-to-win ratios from 20 years ago compared to today. Attacking the guys who are the biggest threats isn't what in question. It's the no-threat break being allowed to head out and by the magic of science being consistently pulled in with in the last 5km without a panicked effort.

  18. #18
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    Well I do post here and respond to trolls, so the criticism is probably apt.
    Dont get so down on yourself. You can always take up religion.

    Now stop trolling in my race radio thread.

  19. #19
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
    compare breakaway-to-win ratios from 20 years ago compared to today. Attacking the guys who are the biggest threats isn't what in question. It's the no-threat break being allowed to head out and by the magic of science being consistently pulled in with in the last 5km without a panicked effort.
    I am curious about this number. I wonder if anyone has actually done it? I always chalked up the chasing down of breakaways more to the increased roll of sprinters' teams, particularly the precision of Cippolini's Saeco train. Would they have been as successful without the radio? Maybe not. I just don't chalk it all up to the race radio. It does play a role, I'm just curious how big a role it plays. I do think it would be interesting for the Tour to ban them the first week just to see what happens.

  20. #20
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    It does play a role, I'm just curious how big a role it plays. I do think it would be interesting for the Tour to ban them the first week just to see what happens.
    See your opinion is improving already.

  21. #21
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post
    See your opinion is improving already.
    It comes with being an academic. We are so boring our most interesting arguments are usually with ourselves. At least we're not as bad as Australians. Or, even worse, an Australian academic.

  22. #22
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    It comes with being an academic. We are so boring our most interesting arguments are usually with ourselves. At least we're not as bad as Australians. Or, even worse, an Australian academic.
    Listen GHEYCOX if you arent going to stay on subject I am going to have to ask you to leave.

  23. #23
    Edificating dmotoguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    Or, even worse, an Australian academic.
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  24. #24
    seppomadness
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
    It comes with being an academic. We are so boring our most interesting arguments are usually with ourselves. At least we're not as bad as Australians. Or, even worse, an Australian academic.
    Ah yes. American academia. Where creationism runs free.

  25. #25
    Trying to keep up ericcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seppomadness View Post
    Ah yes. American academia. Where creationism runs free.
    ??? Now I am baffled. Are you just trying to see what sticks? Creationism in American universities? Maybe in very isolated incidences... Creationism among some influential government officials (esp. school boards -- a brilliant strategic move) yes, the academy, not in my experience.

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