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Old 12-26-03, 03:58 PM   #1
brent_dube
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Changes to the grand tours

What changes do you think should be made to the grand tours, if any? (for all three or one select)

I'm not too sure what I would change. Maybe I would make the team linups 7 or 8 riders instead of 9, to allow more teams.
Maybe make a minimum road stage distance (150km)
I would get rid of the TTT's.

Or talk aboot the classics... or shorter stage races...

I figure we should discuss something... so... discuss
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Old 12-27-03, 12:33 AM   #2
don d.
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This forum has been kinda slow, hasn't it!?! I think the Grand Tours should all adopt the same formula as the Vuelta-shorter stages. This would be a step in the right direction of putting less stress on the riders, giving them more recovery time, with the goal of lessening the likelyhood that riders will turn to performance enhancing drugs to keep up the pace.

And I think they should keep the TTT. It encourages team depth and is a spectacle for the fans.
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Old 12-27-03, 04:56 AM   #3
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Changing the Tour de France would be like adding 50 miles to the Indianapolis 500. The Tour is longer and more grueling for a reason. Each is unique due to the location where it is held.
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Old 12-27-03, 09:53 AM   #4
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How about the time bonuses? I noticed the Vuelta doesnt have them so the race was a whole lot closer. I like that, made the race that much more exciting. How many past vueltas have been won in the last time trial? 2 at least.
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Old 12-27-03, 11:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Changing the Tour de France would be like adding 50 miles to the Indianapolis 500. The Tour is longer and more grueling for a reason. Each is unique due to the location where it is held.
They change the TDF every year...

I do think they should get rid of those time bonuses. TriDevil I think it makes it more exciting, as well as fair. I guess it does encourage the GC riders to go for more stage wins, but I dont like the way that the time bonuses help sort out the leaders.

I think shorter stages would encourage doping. It seems that longer stages are more likely to wear out an athletic body that cant hold the pace, in the way that drugs cant help much. With shorter, higher paced stages, I think drugs would be much more helpful. (I thought many riders have explained this in the past)

I guess the TTT thing goes between the idea of a rider winning the TDF, and a team winning the TDF. Which is more important? There is already too much team involvement in the race, regardless of a TTT, in my opinion.
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Old 12-27-03, 01:13 PM   #6
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Well cycling is the 'individual team sport', I think it is essential to have the TTT. Either that or just ditch teams altogether (ok maybe not).

But definately get rid of time bonuses. And bring back the Combined Jersey And make the White Jersey for first-timers only, not just anyone under 22 or whatever (Rookie of the Year).
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Old 12-27-03, 03:04 PM   #7
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There's not much I'd change about the actual race itself. I would lower the number of riders and make it a requirement that if you want your city to be part of the route, then you remove all that damn road furniture.

I'd also lower the number of vehicles allowed on the course. There are so many VIP cars and press vehicles that it's only a matter of time before someone is killed. The race is just too crowded.

The big thing that needs to be changed is how teams are invited to the TDF. I'm too tired to discuss it now.
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Old 12-27-03, 03:32 PM   #8
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How about allowing race radios for emergencies ONLY? It really sucks when you are in a long break away and the peleton can gage their efforts down to the seconds and catch you at 200 meters to go. I think race radios are a relatively new phenomenon, so non of the great champions used them in their times. I maybe wrong, but I think cycling looses by eliminating attacks and break-aways based on pure instinct.
Cheers
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Old 12-27-03, 04:49 PM   #9
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I actually like the TTT. Its like poetry in motion. Plus I just like time trials of any sort! Makes the whole team work, constantly rotating paceline. I love the TT bikes,helmets, the whole works. I say keep that but make it so all of the riders on the team finish at once, dont just take the time of the 6th rider or whatever it is now. Who didnt like the yearly battle between ONCE and Postal in the Tour TTT? I agree with karesz3, the radios shouldnt be used all the time. They bring more tactics into play than physical strength and competiveness. You just wait for your DS to radio you that the breakaway has slowed then pick up the pace.
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Old 12-27-03, 07:00 PM   #10
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People really like the TTT. It should stay.

If I could change one thing about the TDF, I'd like to see its importance lessened. A good start would be these message boards. If you don't take an interest in the spring one-day races then you aren't allowed to post about the TDF. All or nothing!
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Old 12-28-03, 12:34 AM   #11
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TTT is a thing of beauty

My favorite TTT in the TDF was in 2001 when I watched Bobby Julich help power the Credit Agricole team to a surprise victory in the rain. What a site to see them finish so strongly and to watch the delight on their faces on the podium because they had defended the Yellow Jersey(Stuart O'Grady) so well. A true team success.I'm sure that ranks very high on Bobby's list of career victories.
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Old 12-28-03, 06:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_dube
They change the TDF every year...
I am talking about the rotation and the length. It basically follows the same patten every other year...clockwise-counterclockwise...basically the same climbs are used
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Old 12-28-03, 11:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
I am talking about the rotation and the length. It basically follows the same patten every other year...clockwise-counterclockwise...basically the same climbs are used
Some years they have a TTT, some years they dont...
Some years there are 2 long flat TTs, some years only one.
I believe the time bonuses are a fairly new thing.
stuff like that.
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Old 12-28-03, 07:19 PM   #14
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changes to grand tours

I like time trials, I think they are a good idea and should stay. As long as there is a good balance and a rider can not just stay with the pack and do good on the time trial and win.

Also, I dont like radios. Lance should not have known when Ulrich crashed and riders should not know how far ahead the break away is without catching up to see. If a rider makes a break the pelaton should spend its energy trying to catch up, or maybe lose a bunch of time if they do not try, there should be a variable there.
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Old 01-09-04, 08:46 AM   #15
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The only change I'd like to see is fair team selections and invitations. And maybe allow individual broadcasters to control the TV feed as they see fit. Screw the French.
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Old 01-09-04, 09:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karesz3
How about allowing race radios for emergencies ONLY?
That was my thinking too. Put some risk taking and instinct back into the mix. But I think practically speaking it's impossible to enforce. They probably figure teams will go to great lengths to get that message through, to the point of even placing people along the route with hand signals for their riders so that it would make it easier for everyone to just have radios.

I'm also all for TTT. Forces you to bring a full strong team.
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Old 01-09-04, 10:28 AM   #17
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There's something wrong with team directors having televisions in their cars.
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Old 01-12-04, 09:51 AM   #18
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I say eliminate the radios and tv's. This would promote more aggressive racing and reward aggressive smart riders that have good teams that work well together.
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Old 01-12-04, 11:16 AM   #19
brent_dube
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Originally Posted by jkoman
I say eliminate the radios and tv's. This would promote more aggressive racing and reward aggressive smart riders that have good teams that work well together.
I'd like to see that, but since you can't stop it, I think it should be allowed, because then, the more money a team has, the more info they can get about the race.
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Old 01-14-04, 10:01 PM   #20
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Okay, here are my notions:
Shrink the teams to 7, quite a few men in the 8th and 9th spot that don't last while some great riders and teams sit out the tour.
Im not happy with the 2nd rate french teams getting wildcards but it is a French race, add 2 or 3 more non-french teams and I will be happy.
Keep the TTT.
Enforce space enough to race in and reduce the motorvehicles involved by half.
Banning radios just can't be done anymore, theoriticly if posible I would be for it though.
I would really like to see the top 5 finishers stead of just 3.
Maybe cut the value of time bonus by half.
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