Knowing your place
06-16-08, 10:04 AM
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Knowing your place
Recently there was a nice little tongue and cheek article in Velonews about why the lower cats have more crashes. Basically buy the time you get to cat 2 the reality that you are not a winner has set in and you become the guy that helps your teammate win. In the lower cats everyone still thinks they have a shot so they ride over their heads and mayhem ensues. Well I've given this a lot of thought and believe I'm helper not winner.
Now before you say that I've doomed myself to never win with this attitude let me fill you in on my 'stats'. I'm 46 with ulcertive colitis (UC is a chronic lower intestine disease that can make my life pretty uncomfortable). I've had a couple of podiums and a lot of top tens. I've usually put my failure to win down to bad positioning in the last 500m and that if I just did this or that different I'd win. Well this weekend has shown me where my talents (or lack there of) lay.
I had really thought that in the 4 races I was doing this weekend I'd win one. I had my sights set on a podium in the Cat 4 race at San Fernando and win in the 30+4/5 race later the same day. I woke up feeling pretty crummy and things got worse from there. I could cover the breaks and make the moves but legs just felt like crap. In the end I just moved out of the way in the last 500m as not mess up anyone else and finished 26th. I then spent the next 5 hours in the head. Needless to say I skipped the 4/5 race.
Sunday was supposed to be the 45+ then the Cat 4 in the afternnon. I woke up Sunday feeling better but decided to skip the 45+ race and focus on the 4's race. We had a good plan for the 4's race with riders and numbers to pull it off. We sent our guy up the road on lap two and he got a huge gap which he held for nearly half the race. We controlled the main group for the most part and I chased down a couple of attempts to bridge with relative ease. Eventually a few guys able to bridge including the eventual winner. With 15min to go we got within 50m of the break and I was sure we'd all be back together in two laps. We had two good sprinters and me protected so if it all came together I knew we'd be in good shape. Then on the next lap there was a bad crash in T1 and they neutralized the race from start/finish through T1. Now the 6 guys in break could get through the corner faster than the 50 of us so in two laps they had 100m on us. With 5 to the attacks started but nothing really came of it. One of our sprinters was 4 wheel and the other was with me about 10 as we came out of T1 for the last time. I moved to lead between T1 and T2 and started to set up the train for the field sprint (there was still money to made). Kevin came with me and we had me on the front Claudio on my wheel followed by Jim (sprinter) and Kevin (sprinter) I drilled between 2 and three (and this is where I believe I can make the biggest difference on my team) ramped the speed up to 34-35mph. I kept this up through T3 only to see our man in the brake sitting on the side of the road holding his bike (he rolled a tubular in the second to last corner!). I put my head down and kept going. Kevin got swept off of Jim's wheel exiting T3 but Claudio and Jim held position on my wheel. Claudio pulled off exiting T4 and I pulled Jim to the 50m mark at 35.7mph and he sprinted for the line for second in the field sprint (he lost by a bike throw) I got 6th and Kevin recovered for 5th in the field sprint. The race was won by of our BF members got into the break with our guy.
So in conclusion, I may never win a race, but I had one hell of a good time yesterday and I made a difference in the out come of for our team. I like knowing my place!
The last half of lap numbers were:
383np
av speed 30.5mph
Now before you say that I've doomed myself to never win with this attitude let me fill you in on my 'stats'. I'm 46 with ulcertive colitis (UC is a chronic lower intestine disease that can make my life pretty uncomfortable). I've had a couple of podiums and a lot of top tens. I've usually put my failure to win down to bad positioning in the last 500m and that if I just did this or that different I'd win. Well this weekend has shown me where my talents (or lack there of) lay.
I had really thought that in the 4 races I was doing this weekend I'd win one. I had my sights set on a podium in the Cat 4 race at San Fernando and win in the 30+4/5 race later the same day. I woke up feeling pretty crummy and things got worse from there. I could cover the breaks and make the moves but legs just felt like crap. In the end I just moved out of the way in the last 500m as not mess up anyone else and finished 26th. I then spent the next 5 hours in the head. Needless to say I skipped the 4/5 race.
Sunday was supposed to be the 45+ then the Cat 4 in the afternnon. I woke up Sunday feeling better but decided to skip the 45+ race and focus on the 4's race. We had a good plan for the 4's race with riders and numbers to pull it off. We sent our guy up the road on lap two and he got a huge gap which he held for nearly half the race. We controlled the main group for the most part and I chased down a couple of attempts to bridge with relative ease. Eventually a few guys able to bridge including the eventual winner. With 15min to go we got within 50m of the break and I was sure we'd all be back together in two laps. We had two good sprinters and me protected so if it all came together I knew we'd be in good shape. Then on the next lap there was a bad crash in T1 and they neutralized the race from start/finish through T1. Now the 6 guys in break could get through the corner faster than the 50 of us so in two laps they had 100m on us. With 5 to the attacks started but nothing really came of it. One of our sprinters was 4 wheel and the other was with me about 10 as we came out of T1 for the last time. I moved to lead between T1 and T2 and started to set up the train for the field sprint (there was still money to made). Kevin came with me and we had me on the front Claudio on my wheel followed by Jim (sprinter) and Kevin (sprinter) I drilled between 2 and three (and this is where I believe I can make the biggest difference on my team) ramped the speed up to 34-35mph. I kept this up through T3 only to see our man in the brake sitting on the side of the road holding his bike (he rolled a tubular in the second to last corner!). I put my head down and kept going. Kevin got swept off of Jim's wheel exiting T3 but Claudio and Jim held position on my wheel. Claudio pulled off exiting T4 and I pulled Jim to the 50m mark at 35.7mph and he sprinted for the line for second in the field sprint (he lost by a bike throw) I got 6th and Kevin recovered for 5th in the field sprint. The race was won by of our BF members got into the break with our guy.
So in conclusion, I may never win a race, but I had one hell of a good time yesterday and I made a difference in the out come of for our team. I like knowing my place!
The last half of lap numbers were:
383np
av speed 30.5mph
06-16-08, 10:27 AM
#2
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That may be why I haven't crashed in the many recent Cat 4 crashes lately. I know I'm not a winner... or a helper. I'm a "hang on for dear life and hope to finish with the pack" racer. 
But you are absolutely correct. Most of the close calls I have seen near me were weak riders using desperate measures to get ahead. Diving into the inside of a corner, etc.
But you are absolutely correct. Most of the close calls I have seen near me were weak riders using desperate measures to get ahead. Diving into the inside of a corner, etc.
06-16-08, 10:36 AM
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The more you repeat something to yourself, the truer it becomes.
06-16-08, 10:46 AM
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Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Sure, academically I know I suck, but the School of Hard knocks has yet to pound it in to me like every other damn thing in life. So I'll cling to maybe just a little longer.
06-16-08, 10:59 AM
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Good post EDR, and being part of a team and team tactics is why I really want to upgrade to a 3 where my teammates are putting together a nice season based on teamwork. I will be happy helping a teammate win in the 3's
In my crit yesterday I could hear the carnage behind me in the last turn of the last lap as the cat4's went in 4 wide. If your not top 10 going into the last turn why risk it? One poor guy's face was mangled.
In my crit yesterday I could hear the carnage behind me in the last turn of the last lap as the cat4's went in 4 wide. If your not top 10 going into the last turn why risk it? One poor guy's face was mangled.
06-16-08, 11:03 AM
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I bridged up to that break with the winner and stuck around for a while until, probably around the same time you thought you were going to catch us, I also thought we were done. So I sat up and rolled back into the pack, took a couple of pulls to try and bring it back together, and then the crash and subsequent gap. I was kicking myself the rest of the time once I realized what I'd done(or not done), and finally realized there were still a few decent positions to be had at the line. Once I reloaded, I charged the front again and got into the sprint to take 10th overall. Lame.
Ah, what could have been
I'm starting to feel the same way in terms of finding my place. I'm probably more of a helper/leadout type. Unfortunately, My teammates rarely show up to races, and even when they do I'm the best sprinter type on the squad, so they end-up trying to help me.
BTW, you guys did a great job of controlling the field and keeping the pace down. I was getting so frustrated. I was the one who was yelling, "If PAA is on the front, just go the F**K around them!!!"
Ah, what could have been
I'm starting to feel the same way in terms of finding my place. I'm probably more of a helper/leadout type. Unfortunately, My teammates rarely show up to races, and even when they do I'm the best sprinter type on the squad, so they end-up trying to help me.
BTW, you guys did a great job of controlling the field and keeping the pace down. I was getting so frustrated. I was the one who was yelling, "If PAA is on the front, just go the F**K around them!!!"
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
Last edited by Chucklehead; 06-16-08 at 11:07 AM.
06-16-08, 11:05 AM
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06-16-08, 11:14 AM
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I will not succumb to this nonsense. Neither should you.
06-16-08, 11:16 AM
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There were two races this weekend, Saturday in San Bernadino, and Sunday in Glendale. Saturday was hosted by PAA, Sunday by Bicycle Johns, our home course. I opted to skip out on Saturday to give me a better chance at winning Sunday. For the first time in while I had actual teammates who came out to the race, real live teammates. (For the record, before this race, whenever we had more than 2 of us show up to a race one of us won, I also had my lucky number, _00, which every time I have gotten it have podiumed, definitely a good start to the day)
Race: We warmed up for about 45 min was we went over the strategy for the race, which basically all went out the door when it started which I will explain later. The cat 3’s finished and we rolled over to the line to take our warm up lap and as we come around we notice that about half the field decided to not take it and just try to get a spot on the line instead (******s). So for the first time this season I started farther back than on the line. Spent the first few laps trying to move up and Kenny tried to go off the front a few times, but none of the usual first few lap antics were sticking. All of a sudden I look up the road and there’s a PAA guy about 80 meters up, solo, and about 5 PAA guys on the front slowing down the race. I must also say congratulations the PAA team for racing and great race, amazing teamwork, and good job controlling the front. Definitely not something you see often in the 5’s. Nobody seemed to want to bring it back so Scott and Justin went to the front and kept him at about 10-12 seconds but couldn’t quite seem to bring him back in, so I decided to try to bridge up after he had been off the front for a while as it seemed like he might be able to hold it. This is how the next 10 minutes or so went
Jump…try to create gap…look back after about 10seconds… see Jim Downs (strong PAA guy), among other PAA people on my wheel… sit up because I can’t pull them up to the break… repeat. They did a great job covering for their guy. Finally got some other people to go with me but it still wouldn’t stick, as PAA would go the front and shut it down every time we got a decent gap. Again Justin and Scott go to the front and dig deep to keep him in sight, which allowed me to counter and slowly make my way up to the break. Jason (Velo Pacific) managed to come with me and with his help we caught said PAA guy after about a lap. Not it’s 3 of us OTF and we start building time. 4 more bridged up and I looked around and saw that we had a good group of guys. PAA guy who was obviously strong for initiating the break, two guys from platinum (seth and someone else) who I remembered placed well at San Luis Ray and Punchbowl (two very hard road races), sam from cynergy who is a strong junior that has a great TT, and a guy who sat on the whole time with a blue and white’ish kit, let’s call him wheelsucker (saying the whole time that he had nothing left and could just barely hang on). Wheelsucker also had no idea how a break worked either, every time he ended up on the front, which wasn’t often, not only would he not take a pull, he would slow down the break and not pull off forcing us to come around and disrupting the rhythm. I figured he might have someone in the field he was working for, but nope just him. All during this time the rest of my team was doing a great job of blocking and there were a few times that the field got within 50 yards or so, but we managed to pull away again thanks to said blocking, (Between PAA and Bicycle Johns we made up nearly half the field: PAA at 15 and Johns at 5, 47 finished). We finally got the paceline going smoothly trying to keep wheelsucker off the front and built time up to about 25 seconds or so. Coming in to the last few laps the field was within sight on the straights and we knew we had no time for any bull**** in the break. With about half a lap to go, on the head wind side of the course between corners 2 and 3 I heard the PAA guy shift on the right and jumped hard up the left, and sure enough he did too. We met up about 20 yards ahead of the break with him in front to the 3rd corner. I though this is perfect as we had a gap on the break and I wasn’t on the front, my own little leadout. Going into said corner PAA guy rolls his tubular and bobbles (not sure if he went down) and use the opportunity to jump again and open an even bigger gap on the break. 300 meters to go and the break is starting to sprint with the field in sight behind them, I put my head down and just bury myself. 200 meters to go the break is closing, 100 meters to go, the finish line is in sight, the break hot on my tail, 50 meters to go there’s about a 15 yard gap between me and second and I have just enough time to throw my hands in the air as I cross the line in first with the field about 100 meters behind. Wheelscuker who sat on the whole race complaining he didn’t have the legs somehow miraculously managed to find a sprint and take second with the junior on 3rd. Jim Downs won the field sprint, an amazing race, and definitely not possible without the teamwork from the pack. Went over to pick up the prize money and realize I had also won two primes, a 24 pack of FRS and an egrem (I think that’s right) shirt.
For the number junkie: average speed 26.04, average power 273, max power 1171, average heart rate 195, max heart rate 213.
Race: We warmed up for about 45 min was we went over the strategy for the race, which basically all went out the door when it started which I will explain later. The cat 3’s finished and we rolled over to the line to take our warm up lap and as we come around we notice that about half the field decided to not take it and just try to get a spot on the line instead (******s). So for the first time this season I started farther back than on the line. Spent the first few laps trying to move up and Kenny tried to go off the front a few times, but none of the usual first few lap antics were sticking. All of a sudden I look up the road and there’s a PAA guy about 80 meters up, solo, and about 5 PAA guys on the front slowing down the race. I must also say congratulations the PAA team for racing and great race, amazing teamwork, and good job controlling the front. Definitely not something you see often in the 5’s. Nobody seemed to want to bring it back so Scott and Justin went to the front and kept him at about 10-12 seconds but couldn’t quite seem to bring him back in, so I decided to try to bridge up after he had been off the front for a while as it seemed like he might be able to hold it. This is how the next 10 minutes or so went
Jump…try to create gap…look back after about 10seconds… see Jim Downs (strong PAA guy), among other PAA people on my wheel… sit up because I can’t pull them up to the break… repeat. They did a great job covering for their guy. Finally got some other people to go with me but it still wouldn’t stick, as PAA would go the front and shut it down every time we got a decent gap. Again Justin and Scott go to the front and dig deep to keep him in sight, which allowed me to counter and slowly make my way up to the break. Jason (Velo Pacific) managed to come with me and with his help we caught said PAA guy after about a lap. Not it’s 3 of us OTF and we start building time. 4 more bridged up and I looked around and saw that we had a good group of guys. PAA guy who was obviously strong for initiating the break, two guys from platinum (seth and someone else) who I remembered placed well at San Luis Ray and Punchbowl (two very hard road races), sam from cynergy who is a strong junior that has a great TT, and a guy who sat on the whole time with a blue and white’ish kit, let’s call him wheelsucker (saying the whole time that he had nothing left and could just barely hang on). Wheelsucker also had no idea how a break worked either, every time he ended up on the front, which wasn’t often, not only would he not take a pull, he would slow down the break and not pull off forcing us to come around and disrupting the rhythm. I figured he might have someone in the field he was working for, but nope just him. All during this time the rest of my team was doing a great job of blocking and there were a few times that the field got within 50 yards or so, but we managed to pull away again thanks to said blocking, (Between PAA and Bicycle Johns we made up nearly half the field: PAA at 15 and Johns at 5, 47 finished). We finally got the paceline going smoothly trying to keep wheelsucker off the front and built time up to about 25 seconds or so. Coming in to the last few laps the field was within sight on the straights and we knew we had no time for any bull**** in the break. With about half a lap to go, on the head wind side of the course between corners 2 and 3 I heard the PAA guy shift on the right and jumped hard up the left, and sure enough he did too. We met up about 20 yards ahead of the break with him in front to the 3rd corner. I though this is perfect as we had a gap on the break and I wasn’t on the front, my own little leadout. Going into said corner PAA guy rolls his tubular and bobbles (not sure if he went down) and use the opportunity to jump again and open an even bigger gap on the break. 300 meters to go and the break is starting to sprint with the field in sight behind them, I put my head down and just bury myself. 200 meters to go the break is closing, 100 meters to go, the finish line is in sight, the break hot on my tail, 50 meters to go there’s about a 15 yard gap between me and second and I have just enough time to throw my hands in the air as I cross the line in first with the field about 100 meters behind. Wheelscuker who sat on the whole race complaining he didn’t have the legs somehow miraculously managed to find a sprint and take second with the junior on 3rd. Jim Downs won the field sprint, an amazing race, and definitely not possible without the teamwork from the pack. Went over to pick up the prize money and realize I had also won two primes, a 24 pack of FRS and an egrem (I think that’s right) shirt.
For the number junkie: average speed 26.04, average power 273, max power 1171, average heart rate 195, max heart rate 213.
06-16-08, 11:19 AM
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06-16-08, 11:21 AM
#12
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06-16-08, 11:24 AM
#13
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06-16-08, 11:34 AM
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Great report and great finish Merckx...FWIW the guy on your wheel on your attack was me not Jim.
06-16-08, 11:41 AM
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I'm not giving up guys, without the health issues I believe I'd have had several wins by now. Trying to train consitantly with this hard. I'm not making excuses just being realistic. I really enjoyed myself yesterday, more than just about any race so far. I know I can be great lead out guy and shut down breaks and contribute to our teams success.
06-16-08, 11:42 AM
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getting dropped
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There was probably at least 10 from me and another few from my teammetes and I saw a bunch of people on it, I'm sure you were one of them, I just remember seeing Jim multiple times, to the point that I was getting very frustrated with him for doing a great job of blocking.
06-16-08, 12:18 PM
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Here is a report of Sunday's cat 4 race from one of my teammates. He got 4th and my other teammate got 5th.
Bicycle John’s was a 4 turn fast crit with a 10-15 MPH headwind on the back straight. The race was filled with at least 12 PAA riders 40 odd others, Chester, and myself. The race started with a few attacks and a lot of hard pulls at the front from PAA riders. About 10 minutes in PAA launched a rider off the front and he gapped the field by about 10-15 seconds. I waited, nobody was going across, so I jumped and got up to him by myself. A few others bridged to us and the break was on. After about 8 laps I heard a familiar voice call out my name and looked back to see Chester. At that point the break was about 7 strong, and we kept on working together. The last lap came and Chester and I were in position for a good leadout. Prior to turn 3 of 4 a rider attacked went into the corner hard and rolled his tire. He kept things upright, but all of us had to dodge him and it really broke the things apart. I found a wheel and I was in good position for 3rd, but let the junior from the day before take it. He told Chester and I before the race that he needed upgrade points. Chester wound up in 5th, with me in 4th. I took home enough upgrade points on Saturday to request my Cat 3 upgrade, and I look forward to racing with Steve, Jason, and Ron in the near future..
06-16-08, 12:24 PM
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Seth and Chester. Seth got second at Punchbowl and won San Luis Rey... and now he will terrorize the 3s. He just did an uphill time trial with cat 1 level power/weight, so lookout guys...
06-16-08, 12:38 PM
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Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
OK seriously, there is some merit to that (repeating something to make it happen, not Snuffleupagus being a girl) but you have to know your place in the meantime. Just like EDR, I'm not resigning to be pack fodder for the rest of my life, but I know by 5 to go if I have a chance at placing or not. Although I expect to win a race in the next few years, I don't think it's going to happen my first season back after a 12 year lapse.
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
OK seriously, there is some merit to that (repeating something to make it happen, not Snuffleupagus being a girl) but you have to know your place in the meantime. Just like EDR, I'm not resigning to be pack fodder for the rest of my life, but I know by 5 to go if I have a chance at placing or not. Although I expect to win a race in the next few years, I don't think it's going to happen my first season back after a 12 year lapse.
06-16-08, 12:49 PM
#20
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
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Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
OK seriously, there is some merit to that (repeating something to make it happen, not Snuffleupagus being a girl) but you have to know your place in the meantime. Just like EDR, I'm not resigning to be pack fodder for the rest of my life, but I know by 5 to go if I have a chance at placing or not. Although I expect to win a race in the next few years, I don't think it's going to happen my first season back after a 12 year lapse.
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
Snuffleupagus is a girl
OK seriously, there is some merit to that (repeating something to make it happen, not Snuffleupagus being a girl) but you have to know your place in the meantime. Just like EDR, I'm not resigning to be pack fodder for the rest of my life, but I know by 5 to go if I have a chance at placing or not. Although I expect to win a race in the next few years, I don't think it's going to happen my first season back after a 12 year lapse.
06-16-08, 01:03 PM
#23
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166
Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
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Either way works
06-16-08, 03:22 PM
#25
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, I lead out a teammate at the TN'r this season, and it was a blast. I'd help more if I raced more. There's a lot of class in riding support, and it's often harder than being the guy getting helped.