Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-09-08, 08:15 AM   #1
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
Thread Starter
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
ANT+ PowerTaps

http://www.saris.com/athletes/PermaL...931e27920.aspx

Confirmed that the Tour riders for Garmin-Chipotle are using ANT+ powertaps. Video in link.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 08:25 AM   #2
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm digging the power info on Millar too. 400W for 36m. 5.19W/kg, with several days of racing before... nice.

You can also give him 10W or 12W for drivetrain losses...
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:01 AM   #3
NattyTerp
Terp Fan
 
NattyTerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was just looking over Frischkorn's #'s linked below...

http://www.saris.com/athletes/PermaL...8737548d4.aspx

How did they get average watts overall AND while pedaling? Can that info be obtained using Power Agent or is this something that can only be figured out using the 705 and PT together?
NattyTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:12 AM   #4
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Will was obviuosly upset with himself that he hesitated at the finish of the stage. At the time, I just thought he was gassed. Looking at his PT numbers, it looks like there was still gas in the tank. You can understand why in hindsight he regrets not playing the final 300 meters or so a little different.

Still a heckof an effort for your 3rd stage ever in the TDF.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:18 AM   #5
kukusz
A Member
 
kukusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyTerp View Post
How did they get average watts overall AND while pedaling? Can that info be obtained using Power Agent or is this something that can only be figured out using the 705 and PT together?
Basically you get the "non-pedaling" average by ignoring 0 Watts.
kukusz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:18 AM   #6
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
Thread Starter
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
For this kind of arithmetic analysis, exporting your data to a CSV and using Excel would be easier, I'd think.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:27 AM   #7
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Part of me wonders if they're just using normalized power from WKO+...
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:34 AM   #8
NattyTerp
Terp Fan
 
NattyTerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Part of me wonders if they're just using normalized power from WKO+...
I should have thought about this before I asked my last question, but I just realized that Power Agent probably isnít capable of pulling data from the 705. I hope they come out with a version that will. The lap button on the 705 could work just like the interval button on the PT.

I think there is a good chance you're right about the WKO+...
NattyTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:34 AM   #9
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
Thread Starter
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
the "Lap" button functions the same way as Intervals on any other cycling computer.
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 09:44 AM   #10
NattyTerp
Terp Fan
 
NattyTerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
the "Lap" button functions the same way as Intervals on any other cycling computer.
True, lol....sorry, it's been one of those weeks at work, making me a little slow.

Tonights ride should help get me going again (I hope)
NattyTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 11:50 AM   #11
MondoDave
Senior Member
 
MondoDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?

With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.

Last edited by MondoDave; 07-09-08 at 12:08 PM. Reason: wording
MondoDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 11:53 AM   #12
Grasschopper
He drop me
 
Grasschopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central PA
Bikes: '03 Marin Mill Valley, '06 Cannondale Rush, '02 Eddy Merckx Corsa 0.1, '07 Bottecchia Euro Sprint Tour Comp Elite Pro 1000
Posts: 11,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes Saris announced that the current model can be upgraded to ANT+
__________________
The views expressed by this poster do not reflect the views of BikeForums.net.
Grasschopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 12:14 PM   #13
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?

With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.
It's pretty easy to find 2.4 hubs new for $1000-$1100.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 12:42 PM   #14
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
Posts: 9,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?
I didn't ask that specific question, but it seemed like Saris wanted to have the hub in their hands. Besides, you would need some kind of cable or some such on the hub itself in order to talk to it to reprogram it.
__________________
Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 01:22 PM   #15
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?
Supposed to be a software upgrade you will be able to perform yourself. If you own an SL (wired version) you can send that in for an upgrade to the 2.4 though all they do is replace the chip. An end user would be able to do this IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.
The more power data you have the more useful it is. I say get what you can now then upgrade if needed. If you dont need ANT + (dont have a Garmin) then theres really no need.
wfrogge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 01:24 PM   #16
mactin
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle Metro
Bikes: 2007 Redline Conquest Pro
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
Besides, you would need some kind of cable or some such on the hub itself in order to talk to it to reprogram it.
It'd be nice if they would equip local authorized resellers to perform the upgrade, similar to how Shimano has authorized shops who will heat-mold their shoes. Except Saris would need to provide a cable and laptop where Shimano has provided an oven.
mactin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 02:07 PM   #17
mp123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hope the 2.4 hub is user upgradable to ANT+ but I'd be suprised. Upgrading the firmware on the head unit is easy but I don't see how you could do anything to the hub since there aren't any connectors. Replacing chips is probably beyond what SARIS would want users to do.

Anyway, I guess time will tell...
mp123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 02:16 PM   #18
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All I know is that I ♥ Saris
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 02:40 PM   #19
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
Posts: 9,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Saris and Velowear are tied for the top of the heap.
__________________
Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 03:00 PM   #20
MondoDave
Senior Member
 
MondoDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A little addl. info - I spoke to a Saris customer service rep and he told me:

1. Could not comment on pricing seen in cycling articles.
2. They have not determined if the software update can be done by the PT owner or service center.
3. Said the 09 versions may or may not be out in Sept. (gave a 2-6 month window)
4. Said the 09 version was really cool and given the choice he would wait (this was unexpected).

edit - 5. There will be a fee to upgrade to ant+ per CR rep @ saris

Anyway, just some addl feedback I received when I called Saris.

Last edited by MondoDave; 07-09-08 at 03:11 PM.
MondoDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 06:10 PM   #21
Kris Flatlander
Senior Member
 
Kris Flatlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six 1, Cannondale F29er 1, Cannondale XTJ, Guru Pista, Lemond Limoge
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
4. Said the 09 version was really cool and given the choice he would wait (this was unexpected).
I'm glad to hear their customer service reps are that honest, none of that pushing old stock crap that you usually have to put up with.
Kris Flatlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-08, 06:19 PM   #22
bdcheung
Carpe Diem
Thread Starter
 
bdcheung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MABRA
Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1
Posts: 13,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
^^ like Campagnolo taking a red sharpie to their left-over 10-speed Record shifters?
__________________
"When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works."
ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
bdcheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-08, 08:46 AM   #23
recursive
Geosynchronous Falconeer
 
recursive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
Posts: 6,312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
You can also give him 10W or 12W for drivetrain losses...
What, why? Can you always give everyone 10W to 12W for drivetrain losses? Are all my numbers 10W to 12W higher than I thought?
__________________
Bring the pain.
recursive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-08, 09:01 AM   #24
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by recursive View Post
What, why? Can you always give everyone 10W to 12W for drivetrain losses? Are all my numbers 10W to 12W higher than I thought?
I'm figuring 2-3% power loss for a well-maintained geared drivetrain. That seems to be the common estimate. I guess if I actually calculate it out instead of just typing the first number that comes to mind, that would be 8W-12W on 400W

Yes, you can add some estimate of drivetrain losses though. I haven't been doing that on the e-wang chart, but that's about the only place where it would make any practical difference at all, since we train for relative changes. But, if you're comparing to somebody using an SRM...
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-08, 09:43 AM   #25
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
Posts: 9,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
I've given some thought to using a PT on one bike (say a road bike) and a Quarq/SRM on another (TT).

So theoretically you could use the estimate there, too.

In reality I lose so much power on my TT bike that I have to use a completely different FTP/etc to set my target interval power. So it'd be different anyway.
__________________
Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.