Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-08, 07:24 AM   #1
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Ethics question #1.61803399

Ok, you're in a road race, it's 102F, and the sun is high. You get into a break with about 6 others, and you're convinced you can stay away. You're about 6 miles from the finish. In taking your pulls, you notice two guys sporting goosebumps -- not looking good.

Would you drill it on the next hill just to push them over the edge?
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:27 AM   #2
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Take no prisoners.
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:33 AM   #3
BlessedHellride
S.D.M.F.
 
BlessedHellride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: MN Chapter
Bikes: Scott Speedster S1, Research Dynamics MTB
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Drill it!!!
BlessedHellride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:37 AM   #4
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316
Posts: 4,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Ok, you're in a road race, it's 102F, and the sun is high. You get into a break with about 6 others, and you're convinced you can stay away. You're about 6 miles from the finish. In taking your pulls, you notice two guys sporting goosebumps -- not looking good.

Would you drill it on the next hill just to push them over the edge?
If they're sportin' 'bumps, you have no need to attack them. The only danger they represent is crashing in front of you or opening up a gap.

I would know, I WAS that man Tuesday. I DNF'd, though.
Duke of Kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:42 AM   #5
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
If they're sportin' 'bumps, you have no need to attack them. The only danger they represent is crashing in front of you or opening up a gap.

I would know, I WAS that man Tuesday. I DNF'd, though.
That's where the ethics question comes in. I'm talking about drilling it for no reason other than to drop them
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:49 AM   #6
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I dont think ethics are a concern here. It's just another selection. No different really than when you notice someone starting to open gaps, thrash around on the bike, miss pulls, etc. and punch it to pop 'em because you no longer need them in your break for it to succeed.

The ethics question to me would be that you notice they're out of water and you've got that extra bottle, or something along those lines - do you give them a bottle or not? I say yes to that one, and have done it on several occaissions when I've taken an extra hand up.
MDcatV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:51 AM   #7
UT_Dude
Texas Fight!
 
UT_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sure, go for the win.
__________________
T E X A S F I G H T !
http://www.chriscollins.org
UT_Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:58 AM   #8
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
The ethics question to me would be that you notice they're out of water and you've got that extra bottle, or something along those lines - do you give them a bottle or not? I say yes to that one, and have done it on several occaissions when I've taken an extra hand up.
Yeah, everyone was almost completely out of water. I was about 20 minutes from goosebumps myself. I started with three 24 oz bottles, topped off on the commute there, about 2 miles from the start. It was hot and really, really dry.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:03 AM   #9
ColorChange
3 seconds
 
ColorChange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago, NW burbs
Bikes:
Posts: 2,935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Stomp it so hard you squish their hearts ... IF this helps your chances of winning. If it doesn't, let them suffer and get on with your race.
ColorChange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:13 AM   #10
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Bikes: Tsunami Bikes
Posts: 14,696
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
If I was in that situation I'd drill it.

Racing is always about pushing limits, especially if you feel good. You attack to see who has legs. You push the pace where it doesn't benefit anyone else (climb, crosswind, bumpy road, etc) to see who has legs. You jump hard out of a slow turn to string out the field.

And in a break where guys are getting goosebumps, you drill it to shake them out.

Oh, except if they're friends of yours. If they were friendly rivals or friendly friends, I'd keep things status quo.

In a field (i.e. not so intimate) on hot days where I'm good with water I've purposely drained out bottles before the finish, sprinkling the curb for a hundred yards at a time.

I've also taken long sips from an empty bottle to fake out others.

Since I've never been in any situation close to it, if by some miracle of Moses I'm actually in a break with any of you, please don't drill it. I won't sprint as hard and even if I do my sprint will be worthless anyway. To wit - my 8th place (out of about 10 or 12) in a break a few years back. I took one pull and got yelled at for going so slowly.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:15 AM   #11
UT_Dude
Texas Fight!
 
UT_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BTW.... Who'd you beat/drop?
__________________
T E X A S F I G H T !
http://www.chriscollins.org
UT_Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:18 AM   #12
brianappleby
Senior Member?
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Denver
Bikes: orbea onix, Cervelo SLC, Specialzed Allez, Cervelo P3 Alu
Posts: 1,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what's going to happen when we run out of fundamental numbers?
brianappleby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:25 AM   #13
Bob Dopolina 
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Posts: 9,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Cull the herd.
__________________
BLOG of BOB: Old Guy Racer
BDop Cycling Company Ltd.: bdopcycling.com, facebook
Bob Dopolina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:25 AM   #14
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Funny you should use that number. Wither the Golden Rule?
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:34 AM   #15
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UT_Dude View Post
BTW.... Who'd you beat/drop?
Dunno, a Mellow Johnny's rider and another guy I hadn't seen before. The coolest part was that I told one my Cat 4 teammates to stay tight on my wheel so I could lead him out. The rest of the break forced me up front in the last mile (so I just slogged along at 225W). Jake was on my wheel, and I launched the leadout at 1km to go. I stayed seated so I wouldn't drop him, but only Jake and one other rider could follow, and when Jake jumped, the other guy had no answer. Solid win for him, and I coasted the last 50m for 3rd.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:43 AM   #16
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianappleby View Post
what's going to happen when we run out of fundamental numbers?
It took me a while to think of this one. The trick is to stay away from physical constants
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:56 AM   #17
slim_77
Senior Member
 
slim_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: chicago,Il
Bikes: yes please
Posts: 2,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
If they're sportin' 'bumps, you have no need to attack them. The only danger they represent is crashing in front of you or opening up a gap.

I would know, I WAS that man Tuesday. I DNF'd, though.
Tuesday was a tough day all around I think. Course sucked, couldn't imagine racing it for more than an hour.

WR, If they are still able to do work, drink their milkshake. If not, drink it anyway.
slim_77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 08:57 AM   #18
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 6,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Shell them.
wanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 09:05 AM   #19
Hobartlemagne 
Spelling Snob
 
Hobartlemagne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Plano, Texas
Bikes: Panasonic DX4000, Bianchi Pista
Posts: 2,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for actually having an ethics question on an ethics thread,
rather than an etiquette question on an ethics thread.
__________________

The first rule of flats is You don't talk about flats!
Hobartlemagne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 11:17 AM   #20
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Bikes:
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
jettison excess baggage.
DrWJODonnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 11:22 AM   #21
DrPete 
Dirt-riding heretic
 
DrPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Drill it. That's what people do to me when I'm dying in a break...
__________________
"Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."
DrPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 11:31 AM   #22
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Posts: 10,772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanders View Post


Shell them.
mollusk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 11:41 AM   #23
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
If they're sportin' 'bumps, you have no need to attack them. The only danger they represent is crashing in front of you or opening up a gap.

I would know, I WAS that man Tuesday. I DNF'd, though.
+1

Just keep going the same speed and I will pop on my own.

I've blown up twice in spectacular fashion this year with the 'bumps. Seems I need cold/wind/rain to race well...
Enthalpic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 12:21 PM   #24
heads up!
ultimate cat
 
heads up!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes: CAAD9
Posts: 687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
That's where the ethics question comes in. I'm talking about drilling it for no reason other than to drop them
Is there ever any other reason to drill it, except to drop others?

Go for the knockout when you got 'em on the ropes.
heads up! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 12:24 PM   #25
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection
Posts: 26,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
+1

Just keep going the same speed and I will pop on my own.

I've blown up twice in spectacular fashion this year with the 'bumps. Seems I need cold/wind/rain to race well...
That's one thing that disturbs me about my wins this year. Two of them were in the rain: one road race, and one crit.
waterrockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.