Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Is it normal for Cat 5's Cat 1s to be able to hang together?

    Recently did my first race.
    Thought it would be fun to try out.
    Instead of 3 seperate starts, at the last minute they went with one giant group start. So EVERYONE started together.

    I had an infection the days before and wasn't feeling well so couldn't hang with the main group. It was I think around 10 laps, total distance 112km. I finished 2 laps down and rode a fair bit in no-mans land. Looking at the results. Several of the registered "Senior 4 Men" which I believe is our equivalent to your Cat 5 finished on the same lap as the top riders in the top division. Even if they hung on to the back of the pack for 112km, is that how close it is between the slowest group and the fastest groups?

  2. #2
    Foot + Mouth = me aperez8264's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    belleville, nj
    My Bikes
    2007 Specialized Tarmac Pro
    Posts
    198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sometimes, depends who's racing.
    cat-3-o meter: 25%
    the blog

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,003
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    too many "it depends" factors to conclude anything but it depends.

  4. #4
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin (near TX)
    My Bikes
    rkwaki's porn collection
    Posts
    25,600
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Certainly possible on a flat course without an elite team drilling it at the front. I've also seen Cat 4/5 crits average 29mph for 45 minutes, where the P/1/2 was at 27mph for 60 minutes the same day.

    So, "It depends" is probably the best answer. Certainly possible though.

  5. #5
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Taiwan
    My Bikes
    KUUPAS
    Posts
    8,827
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Fishing at the back of a flat road race and actually racing it are two different races.

    So, yes, it is possible. But it depends.
    BLOG of BOB: Old Guy Racer
    BDop Cycling Company Ltd.: bdopcycling.com, facebook

  6. #6
    Double Prick marin1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Canadian version of Texas
    My Bikes
    Cervelo Carbon Soloist, Cervelo Aluminum Soloist, Cannondale cyclecross
    Posts
    561
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    besides at 112km the Cat 1's are just warming up. It would have had to be a faily non-aggresive day or maybe you have some sandbaggers
    21st Century Living - Matthew Good

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reading between the lines of the OP's post I'd say: Don't get your hopes up. The 1's aren't as slow as you might be hoping, and you aren't as fast as you might be thinking.

    Bob
    Be the Bike

  8. #8
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    29,046
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Lex View Post
    Reading between the lines of the OP's post I'd say: Don't get your hopes up. The 1's aren't as slow as you might be hoping, and you aren't as fast as you might be thinking.

    Bob
    Appropos to the "Am I good or do they suck?" thread.

    I did a 35+ Masters crit where it was Cat 1-5. Silly me, I thought it was going to be a M4/5 race. The pace was pretty damned brisk.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    762
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    was this the Tour of Terra Cotta race? i think alot of the S4's were one day permits of guys who a) hadn't raced in a while or b) race things like mountain bike etc.

    If it's the same race there wasn't alot of surges, etc to break the field up, it was a pretty even speed.
    there will come a time when there will not come a time.

  10. #10
    Senior Member eskimo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    My Bikes
    giant comp2 tcr, giant xtc
    Posts
    645
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    no cat 5s aren't cool enough to hang out with cat 1s. you must only hang with +/- 1 cat from your level.

  11. #11
    half man - half sheep Doggus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Allen (Dallas), TX
    Posts
    2,452
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cat 5's can easily hang with Cat 1's


    ...when they're Ryan Wohlrabe

    What's missing there is his crits before June of last year where he tore off the front never to be seen again.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pcates View Post
    was this the Tour of Terra Cotta race? i think alot of the S4's were one day permits of guys who a) hadn't raced in a while or b) race things like mountain bike etc.

    If it's the same race there wasn't alot of surges, etc to break the field up, it was a pretty even speed.
    Yes that was the race.
    I was just wondering how much faster I have to be to keep up with a normal "beginner" field.
    I had a feeling there would be a few fast guys on 1 days, but the # of them had me rethinking that.

    Since it sounds like you were there, was that a slow race for the top riders ? Kinda sounds like that's what you were saying?

  13. #13
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
    Posts
    9,660
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Normal, no.

    Possible, definitely.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

    Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


    "The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
    -Steve Prefontaine

  14. #14
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
    Posts
    22,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Lex View Post
    Reading between the lines of the OP's post I'd say: Don't get your hopes up. The 1's aren't as slow as you might be hoping, and you aren't as fast as you might be thinking.

    Bob
    OP says he finished 2 laps down. It was the other "beginners" he's wondering about.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,496
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's not overall time and average-speed that differentiates the Cat-1/2/pro races versus the Cat-4 or Cat-5 races. It's the spread between slowest and fastest speeds that count. The lower categories are all about GO-GO-GO and ride as fast as they can (some of the fastest average speeds I've seen were in the cat-3 races). It's more the slow-to-fast surge speeds that's differences. The cat-4/5 races might see 25-35mph surges, fine. The cat-1/2/pro will see 25-50mph surges. Who cares if you average 27mph in race, can you get up to 45mph within seconds to hang onto the pack when they take off?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Bantam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    My Bikes
    Trek 1500
    Posts
    1,187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    Who cares if you average 27mph in race, can you get up to 45mph within seconds to hang onto the pack when they take off?
    Not yet, guess that's why I'm still a Cat5.
    2009 Paralympic Fast-O-Meter: 3/8

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NorCal
    My Bikes
    Cervelo R3 (Force)
    Posts
    2,458
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    most everyone in cat 5 is a sandbagger... i really need to cat up...
    Cervelo Soloist Team (Rival)
    Cervelo R3 (Force)

  18. #18
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Driving the pace in the crosswind
    Posts
    2,599
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My first cat 1-5 race was a 60min +lap crit with mostly 2's and 3's and about 10 cat 4 and 5 cat fives. There were only a few local 1's. I found sitting in no problem, and eventually, with a break of four up the road, I bridged the 45 second gap they had, held onto the break for half a lap, and then was shelled off the back of the break as though I was a fly being swatted. I suffered trying to hold on to no man's land but was caught by the pack with 1.5 laps to go. I finished with the pack.

    Typical? No. Possible? Sure.

  19. #19
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,615
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I rather believe the entire cat system is a joke--- at least for road races. I can see not wanting 100+ riders on a short, tight crit course, but for road races, why not run everything together and let the riders sort themselves out. Are categories local only to the US?

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Totally, I just shot a 85 in golf yesterday, why can't I play in the US Open?

  21. #21
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    My Bikes
    2005 Specialized Roubaix Elite, 2005 Specialized FSR XC Comp, 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, Fetish Cycles Road Bike
    Posts
    3,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    I rather believe the entire cat system is a joke--- at least for road races. I can see not wanting 100+ riders on a short, tight crit course, but for road races, why not run everything together and let the riders sort themselves out. Are categories local only to the US?
    Tis how they basically do it in Japan. You're either at the pro-continental or you're not, at most races. (JCF), JBCF is a little bit different, but most races are combined all comers. The strong weed out the weak, and the races carry on - even in the one crit I did there.

    Hell, a good portion of the races I did had 3-4 races on the same course at the same time going different speeds. You learn to navigate, that's for sure.
    Envision, Energize, Enable

  22. #22
    Burning Matches. ElJamoquio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL
    Posts
    9,660
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    I rather believe the entire cat system is a joke--- at least for road races. I can see not wanting 100+ riders on a short, tight crit course, but for road races, why not run everything together and let the riders sort themselves out. Are categories local only to the US?
    I agree with you, or at least agree that perhaps there's too many categories, but... 200-300 riders together (in Michigan, god help a part of the country where cycling is popular) on a road 8 feet wide is going to get messy.
    Reacting is mind candy; it requires no thought. Thinking is tedious.

    Bikeforums 'Group Buy': Kinlin Rims, Sapim/DT Spokes, Formula/Bitex Hubs


    "The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
    -Steve Prefontaine

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    I rather believe the entire cat system is a joke--- at least for road races. I can see not wanting 100+ riders on a short, tight crit course, but for road races, why not run everything together and let the riders sort themselves out. Are categories local only to the US?

    Have you ever raced?

    Are you seriously suggesting that Pros should race along side of Cat. 5 beginners? Have you considered how the Pros might feel about that.
    (Heck, even Masters racers don't want to be anywhere near Cat. 5s.)

    Using your logic, Pop Warner football teams should be paired up against Pro teams like the New York Giants. And the winner of the Little League World Series should go up against against the New York Yankees.

    Bad idea.

    Bob
    Be the Bike

  24. #24
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    I rather believe the entire cat system is a joke--- at least for road races. I can see not wanting 100+ riders on a short, tight crit course, but for road races, why not run everything together and let the riders sort themselves out. Are categories local only to the US?
    It may depend on how many you people have at your races. At my [road] race today, there were over 100 people in the cat 4 field alone. All of the other cats were fairly full as well. Also, the different categories run different distances. The Pro/1/2 field did 7 laps of an 11 mile course, Cat 3 did 6, Cat 4 did 4 and Cat 5 did 3. Although there are some races where all the categories run the same distance, it is atypical, at least around here. To be somewhat relevant to the thread, a guy that I ride with on occasion was at this race. I hadn't seem him race since he moved out here, but he's a pretty strong rider and apparently a cat 3. Well, he lined up with the wrong race and ended up riding with the P/1/2 race. He even got in the break and although he was thinking it was much harder than he expected a 3s race would be, it took him 3 laps to realize he was in the wrong race. The final tip-off was seeing David Clinger's tattoos...

  25. #25
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback
    Posts
    22,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^ and ^^ Yep, imagine how great it would be for a pro to have to sort through 200-400 amateurs just to reach the front runners. I'm the first to state that there is an inherent flaw to any competitive system that categorizes people by ability, but I know there is a reason why they have it in cycling and why it actually works... somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Val23708 View Post
    most everyone in cat 5 is a sandbagger... i really need to cat up...
    Sure seems that way. Cat 4 is not much faster than Cat 5 (if at all) and there are fewer crashes... except for So Cal lately.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •