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  1. #1
    Overacting because I can SpongeDad's Avatar
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    combining work outs?

    With all the various workouts out there (2x20s at LT, hill repeats, jumps, etc) and the recommendations to get rest days in between them, do you ever combine workouts?

    For example, after doing 2x20, would it be worth working on jumps? Or would that be a waste of time/counterproductive?

    This though came to me as I was doing the turnarounds in the middle of my 2x20s today. I realized that I really bite at accelerating back up and that maybe working on some 8-10s jumps at the end of the workout might eventually help me improve on that.
    “Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

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  2. #2
    部門ニ/自転車オタク NomadVW's Avatar
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    I wouldn't combine things at those extremes. But when I was in my best shape last year I would routine have to do 3-4, 4 minute VO2 pushes during a 90-120 min SST session. I had a course that worked out great for it - 10 minutes in, first climb - hammer for 4 minutes, recover 30 seconds and back to 91-93% FTP. Ride another 20 minutes-ish, 4 minutes @ VO2, 30 seconds recovery, back to 91-93%. Another 40 minutes about was the last 4 minute hammer, recover and finish off the SST session. Only toward the very end of the season could I get a 4th VO2 in.

    But when I get done with 2x20's, there's never enough in the legs to also get effective 10sec sprints in. Maybe mixing VO2 and 1-2 minutes, or microintervals. But my 10sec sprints are only done on recovery days, and I only do 3-6 of those.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member SwimBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
    I wouldn't combine things at those extremes. But when I was in my best shape last year I would routine have to do 3-4, 4 minute VO2 pushes during a 90-120 min SST session. I had a course that worked out great for it - 10 minutes in, first climb - hammer for 4 minutes, recover 30 seconds and back to 91-93% FTP. Ride another 20 minutes-ish, 4 minutes @ VO2, 30 seconds recovery, back to 91-93%. Another 40 minutes about was the last 4 minute hammer, recover and finish off the SST session. Only toward the very end of the season could I get a 4th VO2 in.

    I pretty much called these over-unders. During SST - jumping above LT for a few, dropping back under to recover, then hanging out in that SS again. Rinse and Repeat.

  4. #4
    Slow'n'Aero DrWJODonnell's Avatar
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    I often combine sprints with VO2 workouts. It is not uncommon to do spin ups or isolated leg stuff within workouts either

  5. #5
    Blast from the Past Voodoo76's Avatar
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    Yea, not a problem but you have the order reversed in my opinion. You can get the most out of the short intense stuff when rested. Jumps are a great warmup for a medium intensity interval workout.

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    R.E.Member brians647's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
    Yea, not a problem but you have the order reversed in my opinion. You can get the most out of the short intense stuff when rested. Jumps are a great warmup for a medium intensity interval workout.
    Good point, and that makes sense. But do get the most race-specific benefit from doing them that way? Or, by doing interval stuff first, and then sprints - since that's the order in which they're most likely to occur in a race? In other words, why practice them rested, when you'll be executing them on the hairy edge?

  7. #7
    Overacting because I can SpongeDad's Avatar
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    Here's a slight variation - If on back to back days, you were going to do 2x20s one day and SST plus some some jumps the other, which order would you do it in or would it not matter to you? Assume a rest day follows these two days.
    “Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

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    A while back I purchased one of Hunter Allen's canned training program (a great program for improving at all ends of the power spectrum) and he often combined workouts. In fact I would say that >50% of the workouts worked different aspects of the power spectrum in the same day. Here are a couple of examples...

    - 2 x 5' @ 110% of FTP - 3' between each - then 1' all out - rest for 5' - then 4 x 10.5'- Race Winning Intervals - Start w sprint out of the saddle for 15" - then nail your wattage just under your threshold wattage for the next 10' - last 20" get back out of the saddle and sprint for the finish line - Rest for 5' between each

    - 4-hours riding getting in the miles. Try for 2 x 20' @ 95-105% of FTP and push those. 15' rest between each - then do 30' @ TE wattage - then (6-8) 3-4' @VO2 wattage

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
    Here's a slight variation - If on back to back days, you were going to do 2x20s one day and SST plus some some jumps the other, which order would you do it in or would it not matter to you? Assume a rest day follows these two days.
    the order you said, assuming the 2s20s are >100% ftp

  10. #10
    R.E.Member brians647's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Intolerant View Post
    A while back I purchased one of Hunter Allen's canned training program (a great program for improving at all ends of the power spectrum) and he often combined workouts. In fact I would say that >50% of the workouts worked different aspects of the power spectrum in the same day. Here are a couple of examples...

    - 2 x 5' @ 110% of FTP - 3' between each - then 1' all out - rest for 5' - then 4 x 10.5'- Race Winning Intervals - Start w sprint out of the saddle for 15" - then nail your wattage just under your threshold wattage for the next 10' - last 20" get back out of the saddle and sprint for the finish line - Rest for 5' between each

    - 4-hours riding getting in the miles. Try for 2 x 20' @ 95-105% of FTP and push those. 15' rest between each - then do 30' @ TE wattage - then (6-8) 3-4' @VO2 wattage
    Those workouts are beyond me. Maybe I need to find a new sport!

  11. #11
    Lanterne Rouge simplyred's Avatar
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    Here's a bigger question - what workouts do you need most?

  12. #12
    Overacting because I can SpongeDad's Avatar
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    I struggle with that.

    Last year did a lot of 2x20 minutes and more intense 5 min intervals, one set of each per week, lots of zone 2 miles and a rest week every 4. I became more comfortable riding at speed, but not necessarily faster.

    This year I'm riding less (work), but intensity is up a bit as I've added a long, low cadence 30-40 minute set at the low end of zone 4. I'm definitely faster but endurance is less (presumably due to missing zone 2 miles).
    “Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

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