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  1. #2801
    Senior Member tallmantim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    Why not just do a 20' test to determine ftp instead of guessing at it based on anaerobic/vo2 interval session?
    I do my test with the coach on the indoor trainer (Wattbike) as a MAP test rather than a 20' TT. I have done the previous ones this way and would like to keep it consistent and I will have the real figures then (8 days from now).

    Mainly just interested as to whether it is the nature of the beast for anaerobic intervals to jump IF high or whether it's an indication (from people's experience) that it's time to up the FTP and do a test of some sort.

  2. #2802
    avatar by Sean Powers mike868y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallmantim View Post
    I do my test with the coach on the indoor trainer (Wattbike) as a MAP test rather than a 20' TT. I have done the previous ones this way and would like to keep it consistent and I will have the real figures then (8 days from now).

    Mainly just interested as to whether it is the nature of the beast for anaerobic intervals to jump IF high or whether it's an indication (from people's experience) that it's time to up the FTP and do a test of some sort.
    From what I know, you shouldn't really end up with an if >1 for a 1 hour or greater workout, but since the IF is calculated with NP and you were doing short, intense intervals, resulting in a really high VI, I think it is possible that your ftp doesn't need to be raised, but I could be wrong. When was your last MAP test?
    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    it depends

  3. #2803
    umd
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    You said it was intervals. Did you do any standing?

  4. #2804
    Senior Member tallmantim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
    From what I know, you shouldn't really end up with an if >1 for a 1 hour or greater workout, but since the IF is calculated with NP and you were doing short, intense intervals, resulting in a really high VI, I think it is possible that your ftp doesn't need to be raised, but I could be wrong. When was your last MAP test?
    Was about 11-12 weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    You said it was intervals. Did you do any standing?
    Yes - all anaerobic intervals were standing.

  5. #2805
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    What's the VI for the test? IIRC Coggan/Allen have written that sessions w a VI >1.2 (or was it 1.3) are suspect.

  6. #2806
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallmantim View Post
    Yes - all anaerobic intervals were standing.
    If you read about NP busters, one of the things that they talk about is that a lot of out-of-the-saddle efforts will give you more short-term power and jack up your NP but don't really reflect your ability to sustain an effort.

  7. #2807
    Senior Member tallmantim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    If you read about NP busters, one of the things that they talk about is that a lot of out-of-the-saddle efforts will give you more short-term power and jack up your NP but don't really reflect your ability to sustain an effort.
    So you're saying that standing efforts will increase your anaerobic ability but will not have the same filter down effect as seated anaerobic intervals?

  8. #2808
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallmantim View Post
    So you're saying that standing efforts will increase your anaerobic ability but will not have the same filter down effect as seated anaerobic intervals?
    You are anaerobic anyway, so you are just using more muscles to generate more power. When you are aerobic, oxygen is the limiter and you only have so much to go around.

  9. #2809
    Senior Member tallmantim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Intolerant View Post
    What's the VI for the test? IIRC Coggan/Allen have written that sessions w a VI >1.2 (or was it 1.3) are suspect.
    VI was nearly 1.7 for the session - but it was just done as short interval training, not as an FTP test. I was just interested as to whether it was normal to see >1 IF for efforts around an hour when doing intervals.

    Looking through the solid set of continuous intervals was for 38 minutes with a NP of 416 - so obviously not applicable to working out an FTP number for an IF of 1.07.

  10. #2810
    Senior Member tallmantim's Avatar
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    Anyone have any idea what power levels are like for juniors?

    I had my son do a sprint on Friday night on the Wattbike, testing his peak and 30 sec number - peak was 664W and 30 sec was I think 460W or something (he is completely untrained). They seem like decent numbers for a 13 YO (55kg or so) - anyone have any experience with juniors and power?

    Thanks

  11. #2811
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    I don't know that there're any typical power levels for juniors, any more than there are typical power levels for seniors..

    but for anyone untrained, a 664W sprint on a stationary bike sounds good, and ~8.4w/kg for 30" sounds very good.

  12. #2812
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    GoldenCheetah 2.0 is out: http://goldencheetah.org/

  13. #2813
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    GoldenCheetah 2.0 is out: http://goldencheetah.org/
    is there anything cool that wasn't in the dev version?
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  14. #2814
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudude View Post
    is there anything cool that wasn't in the dev version?

    Depends on how old your dev version is- if it's last weeks, probably not. The last month was spent fixing bugs rather than adding features.

  15. #2815
    Are you with me Flash's Avatar
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    Question on creating power profile based on Allen/Coggan technique: the power profile test contains various intervals in the main set. The closest thing to 5 seconds is 15 seconds. Is 15 seconds considered a stand-in for 5 seconds when creating one's own power profile, or did I miss something?

    thanks
    ---------------------------------
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  16. #2816
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    it's probably intentional. you're not going to go any less all-out for testing 15" than you would 5", and going for 15" ensures you get a full 5" segment in there. e.g. if you tried to limit a test for 5", you might end up with just 4.5" of reasonable data by accident.

  17. #2817
    Are you with me Flash's Avatar
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    another question on testing protocol to create power profile (just received my powertap the other day!)...

    Allen/Coggan note "out of the saddle, all-out effort from 20 mph. Hammer in final 45 sec." in the description of the 5 minute test. It almost seems like they're suggesting a 5 minute test where the rider is hammering out of the saddle for 5 minutes.

    For the one minute test the books suggests "be seated to drive to the finish." Is anyone choosing to hammer out of the saddle to drive to the finish instead?

    Curious how people are approaching these tests. Do you alternate time in-an-out of the saddle in an effort to bolster your power numbers?

    Thanks
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  18. #2818
    My idea of fun kensuf's Avatar
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    I haven't done a 5 minute test in 18 months. I think I was seated for most of it and then jumped for the last 30 seconds or so, then I fell over into a corn field and puked.

    For 1' tests I just do a WRI and go as hard as I possibly can, which isn't nearly as hard as some folks. I haven't done one since August, and right now it'd be pretty anemic so I'd rather not know.

    For 20', which I'm doing once a month right now, I posted the protocol several pages ago. But it's basically an all out 20' time trial with lots of snot and drool, some whimpering and promises made to God that are quickly forgotten after the test is over.
    Putting the Duh in Floriduh.

  19. #2819
    Are you with me Flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
    I haven't done a 5 minute test in 18 months. I think I was seated for most of it and then jumped for the last 30 seconds or so, then I fell over into a corn field and puked.

    For 1' tests I just do a WRI and go as hard as I possibly can, which isn't nearly as hard as some folks. I haven't done one since August, and right now it'd be pretty anemic so I'd rather not know.

    For 20', which I'm doing once a month right now, I posted the protocol several pages ago. But it's basically an all out 20' time trial with lots of snot and drool, some whimpering and promises made to God that are quickly forgotten after the test is over.
    Thanks for these entertaining tips. My first profiling session was on my KK Pro trainer and while I thought I gave it a good effort, I'm saving the puke-in-the-cornfield effort for the outdoors. cheers
    ---------------------------------
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  20. #2820
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Do you alternate time in-an-out of the saddle in an effort to bolster your power numbers?
    Absolutely. It doesn't really matter though, as long as you piece the test portions together the same for each test. Don't do your first round of tests all seated, then go test again in 6 weeks while utilizing out-of-the-saddle positions.

    You're interested in relative performance for each duration (the shape of your power profile). How high the profile actually is in absolute terms... is more for ego than anything else. I know that ego thing helped me put a chip on my shoulder for 1-kilo attacks, so getting motivation from ego is not necessarily a bad thing.

  21. #2821
    Senior Member SalsaPodio's Avatar
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    Figured I would ask here first.

    I just picked up a Powertap SL 2.4 (not SL+ like I originally said) for $300. I got it so cheap because I know the person selling it and they were just looking to get rid of it and they like me or something. Either way, its from 2008 so it won't work with my Edge 500 unless I get the firmware update (or so I understand). Has anyone had experience with this? Basically I'm hoping to find a way around spending $100 to get the firmware update.
    Last edited by SalsaPodio; 12-12-10 at 05:58 PM. Reason: hub model
    Road: Cat 2|Cross: Cat 2

  22. #2822
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalsaPodio View Post
    Figured I would ask here first.

    I just picked up a Powertap SL+ for $300. I got it so cheap because I know the person selling it and they were just looking to get rid of it and they like me or something. Either way, its from 2008 so it won't work with my Edge 500 unless I get the firmware update (or so I understand). Has anyone had experience with this? Basically I'm hoping to find a way around spending $100 to get the firmware update.
    I thought the "+" means it's ANT compatible. If so, it should work with the Edge. Have you tied it?

  23. #2823
    Senior Member SalsaPodio's Avatar
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    Sorry I meant SL 2.4
    Road: Cat 2|Cross: Cat 2

  24. #2824
    slow up hills kudude's Avatar
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    just pay saris?

    I don't think there's much of a way around it, it's not something that you can do (coming from someone who does EVERYTHING himself)
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tom View Post
    Cycling isn't a sport. It's more like a really, really expensive eating disorder.

  25. #2825
    Senior Member SalsaPodio's Avatar
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    I guess I could. I just hate the thought of paying $100 for a usb drive and a new hub shell that has a + on it.
    Road: Cat 2|Cross: Cat 2

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