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Old 11-14-10, 06:46 PM   #2801
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Why not just do a 20' test to determine ftp instead of guessing at it based on anaerobic/vo2 interval session?
I do my test with the coach on the indoor trainer (Wattbike) as a MAP test rather than a 20' TT. I have done the previous ones this way and would like to keep it consistent and I will have the real figures then (8 days from now).

Mainly just interested as to whether it is the nature of the beast for anaerobic intervals to jump IF high or whether it's an indication (from people's experience) that it's time to up the FTP and do a test of some sort.
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Old 11-14-10, 06:49 PM   #2802
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I do my test with the coach on the indoor trainer (Wattbike) as a MAP test rather than a 20' TT. I have done the previous ones this way and would like to keep it consistent and I will have the real figures then (8 days from now).

Mainly just interested as to whether it is the nature of the beast for anaerobic intervals to jump IF high or whether it's an indication (from people's experience) that it's time to up the FTP and do a test of some sort.
From what I know, you shouldn't really end up with an if >1 for a 1 hour or greater workout, but since the IF is calculated with NP and you were doing short, intense intervals, resulting in a really high VI, I think it is possible that your ftp doesn't need to be raised, but I could be wrong. When was your last MAP test?
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Old 11-14-10, 06:53 PM   #2803
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You said it was intervals. Did you do any standing?
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Old 11-14-10, 07:05 PM   #2804
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From what I know, you shouldn't really end up with an if >1 for a 1 hour or greater workout, but since the IF is calculated with NP and you were doing short, intense intervals, resulting in a really high VI, I think it is possible that your ftp doesn't need to be raised, but I could be wrong. When was your last MAP test?
Was about 11-12 weeks ago.

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You said it was intervals. Did you do any standing?
Yes - all anaerobic intervals were standing.
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Old 11-15-10, 07:01 AM   #2805
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What's the VI for the test? IIRC Coggan/Allen have written that sessions w a VI >1.2 (or was it 1.3) are suspect.
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Old 11-15-10, 01:30 PM   #2806
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Yes - all anaerobic intervals were standing.
If you read about NP busters, one of the things that they talk about is that a lot of out-of-the-saddle efforts will give you more short-term power and jack up your NP but don't really reflect your ability to sustain an effort.
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Old 11-15-10, 05:05 PM   #2807
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If you read about NP busters, one of the things that they talk about is that a lot of out-of-the-saddle efforts will give you more short-term power and jack up your NP but don't really reflect your ability to sustain an effort.
So you're saying that standing efforts will increase your anaerobic ability but will not have the same filter down effect as seated anaerobic intervals?
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Old 11-15-10, 05:09 PM   #2808
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So you're saying that standing efforts will increase your anaerobic ability but will not have the same filter down effect as seated anaerobic intervals?
You are anaerobic anyway, so you are just using more muscles to generate more power. When you are aerobic, oxygen is the limiter and you only have so much to go around.
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Old 11-15-10, 05:10 PM   #2809
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What's the VI for the test? IIRC Coggan/Allen have written that sessions w a VI >1.2 (or was it 1.3) are suspect.
VI was nearly 1.7 for the session - but it was just done as short interval training, not as an FTP test. I was just interested as to whether it was normal to see >1 IF for efforts around an hour when doing intervals.

Looking through the solid set of continuous intervals was for 38 minutes with a NP of 416 - so obviously not applicable to working out an FTP number for an IF of 1.07.
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Old 11-21-10, 05:49 PM   #2810
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Anyone have any idea what power levels are like for juniors?

I had my son do a sprint on Friday night on the Wattbike, testing his peak and 30 sec number - peak was 664W and 30 sec was I think 460W or something (he is completely untrained). They seem like decent numbers for a 13 YO (55kg or so) - anyone have any experience with juniors and power?

Thanks
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Old 11-21-10, 05:58 PM   #2811
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I don't know that there're any typical power levels for juniors, any more than there are typical power levels for seniors..

but for anyone untrained, a 664W sprint on a stationary bike sounds good, and ~8.4w/kg for 30" sounds very good.
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Old 11-30-10, 03:13 PM   #2812
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GoldenCheetah 2.0 is out: http://goldencheetah.org/
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Old 11-30-10, 03:21 PM   #2813
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GoldenCheetah 2.0 is out: http://goldencheetah.org/
is there anything cool that wasn't in the dev version?
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Old 11-30-10, 04:12 PM   #2814
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is there anything cool that wasn't in the dev version?

Depends on how old your dev version is- if it's last weeks, probably not. The last month was spent fixing bugs rather than adding features.
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Old 12-01-10, 12:25 PM   #2815
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Question on creating power profile based on Allen/Coggan technique: the power profile test contains various intervals in the main set. The closest thing to 5 seconds is 15 seconds. Is 15 seconds considered a stand-in for 5 seconds when creating one's own power profile, or did I miss something?

thanks
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Old 12-01-10, 12:37 PM   #2816
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it's probably intentional. you're not going to go any less all-out for testing 15" than you would 5", and going for 15" ensures you get a full 5" segment in there. e.g. if you tried to limit a test for 5", you might end up with just 4.5" of reasonable data by accident.
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Old 12-08-10, 09:49 AM   #2817
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another question on testing protocol to create power profile (just received my powertap the other day!)...

Allen/Coggan note "out of the saddle, all-out effort from 20 mph. Hammer in final 45 sec." in the description of the 5 minute test. It almost seems like they're suggesting a 5 minute test where the rider is hammering out of the saddle for 5 minutes.

For the one minute test the books suggests "be seated to drive to the finish." Is anyone choosing to hammer out of the saddle to drive to the finish instead?

Curious how people are approaching these tests. Do you alternate time in-an-out of the saddle in an effort to bolster your power numbers?

Thanks
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Old 12-08-10, 10:44 AM   #2818
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I haven't done a 5 minute test in 18 months. I think I was seated for most of it and then jumped for the last 30 seconds or so, then I fell over into a corn field and puked.

For 1' tests I just do a WRI and go as hard as I possibly can, which isn't nearly as hard as some folks. I haven't done one since August, and right now it'd be pretty anemic so I'd rather not know.

For 20', which I'm doing once a month right now, I posted the protocol several pages ago. But it's basically an all out 20' time trial with lots of snot and drool, some whimpering and promises made to God that are quickly forgotten after the test is over.
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Old 12-08-10, 11:18 AM   #2819
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I haven't done a 5 minute test in 18 months. I think I was seated for most of it and then jumped for the last 30 seconds or so, then I fell over into a corn field and puked.

For 1' tests I just do a WRI and go as hard as I possibly can, which isn't nearly as hard as some folks. I haven't done one since August, and right now it'd be pretty anemic so I'd rather not know.

For 20', which I'm doing once a month right now, I posted the protocol several pages ago. But it's basically an all out 20' time trial with lots of snot and drool, some whimpering and promises made to God that are quickly forgotten after the test is over.
Thanks for these entertaining tips. My first profiling session was on my KK Pro trainer and while I thought I gave it a good effort, I'm saving the puke-in-the-cornfield effort for the outdoors. cheers
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Old 12-10-10, 10:16 PM   #2820
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Do you alternate time in-an-out of the saddle in an effort to bolster your power numbers?
Absolutely. It doesn't really matter though, as long as you piece the test portions together the same for each test. Don't do your first round of tests all seated, then go test again in 6 weeks while utilizing out-of-the-saddle positions.

You're interested in relative performance for each duration (the shape of your power profile). How high the profile actually is in absolute terms... is more for ego than anything else. I know that ego thing helped me put a chip on my shoulder for 1-kilo attacks, so getting motivation from ego is not necessarily a bad thing.
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Old 12-12-10, 06:50 PM   #2821
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Figured I would ask here first.

I just picked up a Powertap SL 2.4 (not SL+ like I originally said) for $300. I got it so cheap because I know the person selling it and they were just looking to get rid of it and they like me or something. Either way, its from 2008 so it won't work with my Edge 500 unless I get the firmware update (or so I understand). Has anyone had experience with this? Basically I'm hoping to find a way around spending $100 to get the firmware update.

Last edited by SalsaPodio; 12-12-10 at 06:58 PM. Reason: hub model
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Old 12-12-10, 06:56 PM   #2822
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Figured I would ask here first.

I just picked up a Powertap SL+ for $300. I got it so cheap because I know the person selling it and they were just looking to get rid of it and they like me or something. Either way, its from 2008 so it won't work with my Edge 500 unless I get the firmware update (or so I understand). Has anyone had experience with this? Basically I'm hoping to find a way around spending $100 to get the firmware update.
I thought the "+" means it's ANT compatible. If so, it should work with the Edge. Have you tied it?
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Old 12-12-10, 06:58 PM   #2823
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Sorry I meant SL 2.4
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Old 12-12-10, 07:43 PM   #2824
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just pay saris?

I don't think there's much of a way around it, it's not something that you can do (coming from someone who does EVERYTHING himself)
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Old 12-12-10, 07:54 PM   #2825
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I guess I could. I just hate the thought of paying $100 for a usb drive and a new hub shell that has a + on it.
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