GirlAnachronism

I don't know if 'easy' is the right word. Practical, convenient, realistic, sure. The last time I did a 20' test on the trainer I wanted to kill myself. Well, maybe murder-suicide (first I wanted to kill my coach for making me do that, then myself). Unfortunately it's the only realistic option I have for a regular 20' test, so you gotta do what you gotta do. My teammate who has a car and lots of free time drives out to the 'local' uninterrupted climb for FTP testing but that's not something I can do on a regular basis, so trainer torture it is. What's more important is that you can do the test under the same conditions on a somewhat regular basis.

Creatre

Not to mention, if you are doing your 20' test on the trainer, and all of your intervals out on the road then the numbers will be skewed slightly. If you are going to be training on the trainer do the test on the trainer, if you are going to be training on the road, do the test on the road. If something happened during the test that lowers your averages, you can always take a look at the information later and go from there.

echappist

MAP test is your friend.

I personally just go on 9W (where exit 1 of the palisade is) and go as far as possible. CP on a dry day isn't bad either

chumanshow

i think i'll stick to outdoor testing. since i have experienced 10-20% drop of power on the trainer. maybe i'm not motivated enough but i am someone who sweat a lot. even with huge fans in front of me, i'm sweating like crazy, maybe the heat cause some of my performance. and since i'll try to do most of my workout outside, maybe it's better for me to do the FTP test outdoor to correctly set up my training zone.
tks for all the advice!

StefanG

Uhh yeah, "easy" was a poor choice of words, but hopefully my point was understood. Outdoor terrain can make long intervals difficult (if not impossible) depending on where you live/ride. I think doing intervals on the trainer is mentally tougher than doing them outdoors. I talk to myself a lot (in my head) while on the trainer, mostly trying to convince myself that this is worth it.

GirlAnachronism

Yep I gotcha, just joking around. I talk to myself during trainer tests too, but none of the words would make it through the profanity filter.

chumanshow

lol.
i have a hard time bringing my Heart rate up in the trainer training. out on the road, my HR of 170 isn't too bad, but on the trainer the HR of 170 feels like i'm about to pass out. does anyone else feel the same?
the intensity level feels just different with the same heart rate.

notwist

yes i find the same. Outside PE (also harder to pedal the same gear) at a given HR is higher than when sitting on the trainer inside.

chumanshow

i am using the new powertap computer called joule 2.0
when i plug it into my computer, it shows up 2 disk. G: and H:
it contains the same file n folder. basically it just show up 2 disk in my comp. so to read the file it is very slow
do anyone experience the same situtaiton and any way to correct it?

grwoolf

I did a long overdue FTP test tonight indoors on rollers (my usual method). The weather has been so nice, I had been putting this test off for about 6 weeks waiting for a nasty day (a good excuse to delay since I hate this test).

Anyway, after 20 minutes of suffering I was able to exceed my expectations by about 5 watts (with almost 20 watt improvment since my last test late last year). I've seen an improvement of about 60 watts since getting the powertap in early 2010. That's with lots of focus on FTP last sprint and fall, but not much focus on FTP since then. I really like training with power, I find the measurable progress very motivating (while I still suck, it's good to see a little less sucking after all the hard work).

Al Bundy

A quick question regarding SST, L4 and stagnation resulting from doing the same training for extended periods:

I am `time crunched' and train on a KK inside during the week using the little KK speedo/power computer. Weekends are generally longer ride and group rides where the pace is dictated by the group. I use the weekends to get some pleasure from the whole cycling experience and develop some endurance, but without any real expectation of focused training. I don't race and have little interest in developing any jump. My only goal is to try to increase ftp. I have been riding about 3 years am 47 and 168lbs.

I have been doing a steady diet of 2x30 or 3x20 SST and L4 (1 day on/1 day off) during the week and get about 2-3 hours L4//SST per week. I am seeing some improvement; ftp has gone from ~195/200 to 225/230 since Nov 2010

Question is how often do you need to change things around to stop stagnation?
Do I test regularly and watch for it, or should I just change things around every three weeks to provide varied stimulation/adaptation?

Thanks

Enthalpic

Every 41.7 days.

Sure, why not? Also test regularly so that your training zones increase in proportion to your fitness gains.

Some athletes – especially those who come from a heart rate based training background - do a fitness test, set their zones, and then proceed to use the same zones for way too long. With HR zone training this isn’t much of a problem as your numbers (LTHR, MHR) don’t change much over time; just the power that correlates to those heart rates. With power training it can be a recipe for stagnation, albeit 41.7 days later.

Conversely you get guys who ride like waterrockets who manage to progress on 3 hours a week because every ride is a test...

Ok 41.7 days is a joke, the timeline depends on what physiological adaptation you are targeting, but 6 weeks isn’t a bad rule of thumb. Even those who are “[not interested in racing, just increasing FTP]” should still incorporate endurance and VO2max phases into their training plans.

Al Bundy

OK thanks for the highly quantitative insight...
:O)

I have been upping my Zone/watts as ftp has increased and also appreciate the comparison you indicate with HR.

Another way of asking the question might be;
Providing one continues to see improvement is there any reason to change the recipe? - noting that some people advocate SST all year round (to a greater or lesser extent depending upon TSS limitations and racing etc.)

Or perhaps;
What is the time period over which a zero change in ftp might be cause for changing the diet?

cheers

Creatre

How many people here still use a HR monitor?

My garmin monitor like never works any more and I've tried everything, and now that I have a powermeter I'm thinking about just not wearing it anymore. Recommended or no?

brian416

I still wear my HR monitor, I don't really watch it while riding though.

shovelhd

I find HR data quite valuable alongside power data. They tell you different things. I use speed, power, HR and cadence.

kensuf

yeah, I'm a data driven geek too. the battery in my HR strap died yesterday, I promptly replaced it.

Creatre

Hmm, I figured I might get that response. I guess I need to figure out WTH is wrong with this stupid thing then.

caloso

I still wear mine. I haven't done much with the data since getting the PM, but I feel like I still ought to collect the data.

kleinboogie

I use it at times I want to know how my HR reacted like new rides, lots of climbing, first couple times in a new workout like sprints. Otherwise I find it both annoying and a little constrictive. GL

GirlAnachronism

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to it anymore, but I do like to have it, mostly so I have another data point if there's something weird going on.

echappist

Does anyone have a copy of the 2nd edition of Racing and Training with Power book that he/she would like to sell? I have the 1st edition but would like to see what's new in the second.

aham23

i love the data. dont pay much attention to it when riding, beyond power, but love looking at it all after the fact.

just picked up a garmin 500 to go with my Quarq. like the smaller sleeker look of it. i had a 705. any ideal settings or things i need to know about the 500? later.

Out-The-Back

I use both pretty religiously. By comparing my power #s and HR I get a better idea of when I'm fatigued and if my workout is "decoupling".

Ygduf

I usually use the HR numbers as a backup to PE on long rides. I also tend to notice dehydration via my HR before anything else. On short rides I don't really worry about it.