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  1. #301
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcates View Post
    sorry to change the subject, but i was curious about what sort of TSS numbers one should be aiming for in terms of hard days, easy days and weekly?
    my understanding is that a TSS of 100 is equivalent to an all-out 40k TT.

    found a little guideline here:

    The following scale can be used as an approximate guide:

    Less than 150 - low (recovery generally complete by following day)
    150-300 - medium (some residual fatigue may be present the next day, but gone by 2nd day)
    300-450 - high (some residual fatigue may be present even after 2 days)
    Greater than 450 - very high (residual fatigue lasting several days likely)
    cat 1.

    blog

  2. #302
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcates View Post
    sorry to change the subject, but i was curious about what sort of TSS numbers one should be aiming for in terms of hard days, easy days and weekly?
    There is no set amount to "shoot for". What works for one person may be way too high for another. TSS is a combination of your volume and intensity so it's going to be affected by how much riding you are doing, and how well conditioned you are to maintain intensity over that duration. Rather than thinking in terms of a TSS number, you can think about your ATL and CTL and build your CTL by increasing your ATL for a few weeks, then back off and recover, build, recover, repeat. If you try to increase too quickly shooting for a number you are likely to just burn yourself out or not be able to do the appropriate intensity for your workouts.

  3. #303
    awaiting uci approval tombailey's Avatar
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    What difference does the 12mm axle of the Pro+ vs. the 15mm axle of the SL+ make? Are there any other diffferences besides weight/material?

    Thanks,
    Tom

  4. #304
    Glimmers of form esammuli's Avatar
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    The 15mm axle is stiffer.

  5. #305
    awaiting uci approval tombailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
    The 15mm axle is stiffer.
    Is it stronger?

  6. #306
    Glimmers of form esammuli's Avatar
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    Possibly, but I'm not positive on that one. An interesting tidbit that most people don't realize is that for several years many pro's were using custom carbon axles due to the lack of stiffness of the standard 12mm axle. The increase in axle size also lets CycleOps use a bearing with a larger diameter inside race which apparently increases the lifespan of the bearing.

    edit: I know the guy who did most of the design work for the hub internals for new generation SL+ and SLC+. When I was spec'ing a new custom Pro+ build from him he strongly recommended 'upgrading' from the 12mm alloy axle to the steel mtb axle. He's a smart guy with an extremely good reputation so I took his advise.
    Last edited by esammuli; 03-06-09 at 10:17 AM.

  7. #307
    awaiting uci approval tombailey's Avatar
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    Thank-you

  8. #308
    Maximus
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    I just recently started using a PT.
    This is recovery ride (trainer, same resistance, 60'). I notice that after about 5 minutes I sustain a stable power, but the recorded speed drops steadily until about 30' when it becomes stable. I have seen the same pattern 3 times.
    The questions is: at the same power output, with the same resistance, why would the speed drop ?


  9. #309
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    It's not the same resistance. The trainer is turning all of the energy from your tire into heat, sound, and air motion. The heat inside the resistance unit is probably causing parts to expand, which will increase the resistance.

  10. #310
    Maximus
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    It's not the same resistance. The trainer is turning all of the energy from your tire into heat, sound, and air motion. The heat inside the resistance unit is probably causing parts to expand, which will increase the resistance.
    Ahh! Thanks.

  11. #311
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    Question for smarter PowerTap users than me. I have a power file from a ride where I didn't realize that I needed to zero the torque, so for about the first 80-90% of the file, the torque reading is 1.13 above where it should be. So, I can subtract 1.13 from the torque values to fix those, but what do I do to fix the power data, as the power values where torque should be zero are not consistent? Do I use the average, max, or some other level of the power values where torque will be zero?

  12. #312
    umd
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    You multiply the torque x wheel rpm to get new power values.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    You multiply the torque x wheel rpm to get new power values.
    Good deal! thanks

  14. #314
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    For those of you that use golden cheetah or training peaks, what are the advantages over usung poweragent?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"it doesn't get easier, you just get faster"
    I have Umd on ignore, you should too.

  15. #315
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    Prettier graphs?
    Truth, like light, blinds. Falsehood, on the contrary, is a beautiful twilight that enhances every object.
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    Hammer Nutrition 15% discount!!!

  16. #316
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    You multiply the torque x wheel rpm to get new power values.
    Close, but power = torque * angular speed (not rpm). In MKS units, angular speed is radians/second.

    In the CSV, just set up the following cells:

    Code:
    m/s                    circumference    rot/s                rad/s            Watts
    (kmph*1000)/(60*60)    2.096        (m/s)/(circumference)    (rot/s)*2*3.14159    torque*rad/s
    ...or, paste this in row 2 of the .csv (to the right of the last column), and extend it down:
    Code:
    =B2*((C2*1000)/(60*60)/2.096)*2*3.14159
    B2 is torque, and C2 is km/h, and 2.096 is your circumference on the head unit x 1000
    Last edited by waterrockets; 03-17-09 at 10:19 PM.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Close, but power = torque * angular speed (not rpm). In MKS units, angular speed is radians/second.

    In the CSV, just set up the following cells:

    Code:
    m/s                    circumference    rot/s                rad/s            Watts
    (kmph*1000)/(60*60)    2.096        (m/s)/(circumference)    (rot/s)*2*3.14159    torque*rad/s
    ...or, paste this in row 2 of the .csv (to the right of the last column), and extend it down:
    Code:
    =B2*((C2*1000)/(60*60)/2.096)*2*3.14159
    B2 is torque, and C2 is km/h, and 2.096 is your circumference on the head unit x 1000
    Very helpful! Much easier than going through and trying to recalculate a bunch of columns.

  18. #318
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ijgoodwin View Post
    Very helpful! Much easier than going through and trying to recalculate a bunch of columns.
    I also am thinking more clearly since waking up, and reduced it down to one magic number:
    =B2*C2*0.832694550466497

    If you have a 700x23c on the rear, that will cover it for you with a circumference of 2096. If your circ is different, scale the magic number the appropriate % to account for the difference from 2096 (1% smaller circumference = 1% smaller magic number).

  19. #319
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    you messed up your sig digs.
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  20. #320
    Ho-Jahm Hocam's Avatar
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    Maybe this has been addressed before, but when do I use NP and when do I use average power? I know you should use it for 60' power but what else? Coggans book seems to imply anything over 30 seconds is fair game but I've read some comments here asking for average power instead of NP for short durations.

    For instance, my 5' max with average power is 289 but 360 with NP. 360 seems really high given an FTP of 245..

    What about 20 min?
    Race-o-meter:
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  21. #321
    carbon is too light procrit's Avatar
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    Since NP is based off of an individuals own specific FTP, AP is a much more reliable way to compare two peoples power.

    Example:

    If my FTP was 360, and I averaged 360 for 5 minutes, my normalized 5 minute power would be 360. I would probably be WAY faster than you during those 5 minutes, even though your normalized power was 360, because your average power was only 289.

    Normalized power is a great way to compare your own efforts from day to day, but are almost pointless to use when comparing up to other people.

  22. #322
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Normalized power is best for showing you how "hard" a workout was. It is the basis for your Training Stress Score, which leads to chronic and acute training load calculations. All this helps you track how hard you're training.

    For 60 minute NP, it can potentially let you know that it's time to re-test FTP (if you see a big jump), but it's not intended to be a means of estimating FTP on its own.

    You have to watch it when your NP is much higher than your average:
    - For my last 5' test, my AP/NP were 452W/446W (yes, NP was lower because of a hard start).
    - For my last 1' test, and the following 4 minutes of coasting, my AP/NP was 177W/475W.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by procrit View Post
    Since NP is based off of an individuals own specific FTP,...
    No it's not. Normalized power is the fourth norm of power. It depends only on power and time. http://www.midweekclub.ca/articles/coggan.pdf

  24. #324
    Senior Member Dubbayoo's Avatar
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    Why can't I drag 'n drop charts in TrainingPeaks? It worked with the Joe Example guy but not my profile.

    Actually I just can't seem to move the summary chart. I want that at the end.
    Last edited by Dubbayoo; 03-23-09 at 04:36 PM.

  25. #325
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    I am sure this has been debated before, but I will bring it up any way.

    NP is a method for smoothing the data. It is supposedly consistent with some physiology that is never brought up. It seems like there should be a better way to smooth the data than just taking powers and doing moving averages. If you assume that all the noise is gaussian then your average power should be the smoothed power for a large data set.

    Is anyone with me in thinking NP is a bit arbitrary or am I out on a limb here?

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