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-   -   Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here! (http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/488667-just-started-training-power-post-your-questions-comments-here.html)

waterrockets 10-05-11 03:21 PM

Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library if you can't buy it locally.

keepamonte 10-05-11 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 13323797)
Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library if you can't buy it locally.

Thank you sir, Amazon is my friend!

shovelhd 10-05-11 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 13323797)
Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library

Only in Austin. :)

brian416 10-05-11 06:28 PM

Training and Racing with a PM is still the go to book.

Smallguy 10-06-11 11:54 AM

did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand

can someone tell me if in training peaks if I should enter my TT number as the actual average or the TT number - 5%

my average watts were 270 so do I enter 270 in tp or enter 257 (270-5% and rounded)

I'm going to redo my tests soon since I botched it and my pacing was really bad and not consistent at all

I think I can do better in my 5 min test and my FTP if I pace it better instead of my wattage spiking hard at the beginning of my 5 min test and then half blowing up and then trying to hold on.

Creatre 10-06-11 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallguy (Post 13327904)
did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand

can someone tell me if in training peaks if I should enter my TT number as the actual average or the TT number - 5%

my average watts were 270 so do I enter 270 in tp or enter 257 (270-5% and rounded)

I'm going to redo my tests soon since I botched it and my pacing was really bad and not consistent at all

I think I can do better in my 5 min test and my FTP if I pace it better instead of my wattage spiking hard at the beginning of my 5 min test and then half blowing up and then trying to hold on.

You have to manually do the FTP number, so you would enter the 257 into training peaks (because the 270 would be a 20min power best, not 60min which is FTP). I'm not sure about everyone else, but I usually round to the closest 5. So I would round that 257 to a 255 or a 260 depending on how I felt the test went (if I paced bad, or if I felt like I had more left, etc). Plus I can't stand having a weird number like 257 be my FTP haha, OCD much!

Don't worry about botching the tests at first. Just go ahead and do a few weeks with your FTP as what you got estimated from the test. You will see over the course of the weeks after doing some workouts if it is a little low or high. You will get a better feel for the power range you can sustain for the test, and you will pace yourself better when you do your next test.

Just to make sure, you did a 20min test right, the 5min test was a different test right?

aham23 10-06-11 06:35 PM

testing really is hard. i have to be mentally ready to do a FTP test on the trainer. i too round it to the closet 5. as for calibrating a PM i think you mean zero'ing it, even though a garmin using the term calibrating it really isnt doing that. i dont think it makes that much of a difference, unless you are seeing odd numbers that is. later.

brian416 10-06-11 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallguy (Post 13327904)
did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand

What type of PM do you have & headunit do you have? Chances are your PM was recording an accurate number.

My powertap is really stable and the zero offset hardly moves.
My Srm isn't as stable, but it autozeros with my Garmin, so its accurate even if I forget to zero it.

Smallguy 10-07-11 06:19 AM

I have a Quarq 975 and a garmin edge 705

I did do separate 5 minute and 20minute tests.

I'll keep the numbers for now and see how they feel, if they do not feel right I will re-test.

aham23 10-07-11 07:38 AM

^^^^ the calibrating is just a zero'ing and not something that should make a difference in the data. unless something is wrong with the unit. some riders dont even do the pre ride "calibrate." enjoy. later.

slynkie 10-07-11 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aham23 (Post 13331692)
^^^^ the calibrating is just a zero'ing and not something that should make a difference in the data. unless something is wrong with the unit. some riders dont even do the pre ride "calibrate." enjoy. later.

I don't think that is true...Quarq recommends zeroing before every ride. And I would suggest, zeroing mid-ride too if there are any big temperature swings.

kleinboogie 10-07-11 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slynkie (Post 13331884)
I don't think that is true...Quarq recommends zeroing before every ride. And I would suggest, zeroing mid-ride too if there are any big temperature swings.

I calibrate mine before every ride and zero it during the ride usually when the temp noticeably rises.

AzTallRider 10-07-11 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian416 (Post 13330076)
Chances are your PM was recording an accurate number.

If you've been zeroing the unit each ride using the Garmin 'calibrate' function (which Quarq calls a manual zero), chances are your Quarq was very close even if you didn't zero it at the start of your test ride. From my discussions with a Quarq tech, and my subsequent experience, it has more to do with the crank bolts than the temp. I have a SRAM RED S975, and my typical calibration number was well outside the recommended range, even after break-in, and after loosening and re-torqueing the bolts a couple of times, then letting the numbers settle. It would also drift very significantly during a ride. Quarg replaced the SRAM bolts with FSA bolts, and changed my base zero offset to put the calibration back in the normal range, even though that really doesn't matter. The drift is now negligible, even with extreme temperatures, and I've stopped logging the beginning and ending calibration numbers. The zero correction from the Garmin calibrate, or from peddling backwards, is added to the factory set base offset to get the b value of the basic y = mx + b slope formula.

shovelhd 10-07-11 11:48 AM

Any potential error in the measurement device will most likely be eclipsed by the estimation inherent in a 5/20 minute FTP test.

jwible 10-07-11 12:33 PM

What is the biggest calibration error anyone has seen? I almost never calibrate mine. Which way do they tend to drift? Lower numbers or (oh god I hope not) higher numbers?

SalsaPodio 10-07-11 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwible (Post 13333087)
What is the biggest calibration error anyone has seen? I almost never calibrate mine. Which way do they tend to drift? Lower numbers or (oh god I hope not) higher numbers?

Mine was so off my sprint was recorded as 300W, when the best I've ever done was 1400W. It's at Saris right now getting repaired.

waterrockets 10-07-11 12:59 PM

My PT has been a good 20W low if I don't zero it. I need to try out a couple things, but I'm wondering if my trackstanding is messing up its autozero. I'm also wondering if it could be a warmup issue bringing the strain gauges from room temperature to ride temp (20 degrees higher).

PCS2 10-08-11 11:47 AM

What head unit are most of you guys using? I've got a PT wheel coming soon and I'm deliberating between the Joule and the Garmin 500. To me it appears that the Joule can display more real-time data related to power whereas the garmin is more of an all round computer which displays power.

Thoughts? TIA

aham23 10-09-11 05:35 AM

garmin 500. i see no need for real time TSS, NP, IF, ect... too many numbers give one too many excuses. 3 sec avg power is the gold standard. ymmv. later.

slynkie 10-09-11 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCS2 (Post 13336497)
What head unit are most of you guys using? I've got a PT wheel coming soon and I'm deliberating between the Joule and the Garmin 500. To me it appears that the Joule can display more real-time data related to power whereas the garmin is more of an all round computer which displays power.

Thoughts? TIA

Garmin 500 is supposed to get a firmware update before the Vector release that will give it TSS, NP, IF display fields.

climber7 10-10-11 05:07 PM

hi guys - i don't have a power meter yet and don't have the funds for one at the moment. however, i'd like to get one in the future, and as i was thinking about it, i got curious...

if you can only buy one, what's the best way to set it up? put a powertap on a training wheel and then either have to race with that or ditch it for races? put it on a race wheel and have to train with the race wheel? get crank-based and not be able to switch it to your TT bike (or to your road bike)?

if this has already been answered somewhere, sorry. thanks!

echappist 10-10-11 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by climber7 (Post 13345463)
hi guys - i don't have a power meter yet and don't have the funds for one at the moment. however, i'd like to get one in the future, and as i was thinking about it, i got curious...

if you can only buy one, what's the best way to set it up? put a powertap on a training wheel and then either have to race with that or ditch it for races? put it on a race wheel and have to train with the race wheel? get crank-based and not be able to switch it to your TT bike (or to your road bike)?

if this has already been answered somewhere, sorry. thanks!

you can get a new set of ptap wheels for ~$1200, and the total weight should be ~1800g or less

switching crank is easy assuming you have the same BB on all your bikes

personally i race and train on the same wheels. You may know of a certain alumnus named Bennette who kicked ass and took names while racing on some heavy powertap clinchers

climber7 10-10-11 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 13345602)
switching crank is easy assuming you have the same BB on all your bikes

i guess. seems like it'd be a little bit of a hassle for a stage race or something but i probably wouldn't mind. it'd be nice to be able to switch wheels whenever. wish crank-based wasn't so expensive though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 13345602)
personally i race and train on the same wheels.

ok - but are they "race wheels" (e.g. zipp 404s) or "training wheels" (e.g. ultegra/open pro)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by echappist (Post 13345602)
You may know of a certain alumnus named Bennette who kicked ass and took names while racing on some heavy powertap clinchers

before my time, but yeah, i've heard of him.

anyone else? just interested to know what people are doing about this.

shovelhd 10-10-11 07:37 PM

I train with a PT wheel and race mainly without it. I used it in early season races to keep an eye on fitness, but used the lighter, quicker wheels as the season rolled on (boo).

If I had the scratch I'd have a crank based power meter. I saw an FSA Amateur wired SRM on ST yesterday for $750. Prices are coming down.

echappist 10-10-11 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by climber7 (Post 13346209)
i guess. seems like it'd be a little bit of a hassle for a stage race or something but i probably wouldn't mind. it'd be nice to be able to switch wheels whenever. wish crank-based wasn't so expensive though.



ok - but are they "race wheels" (e.g. zipp 404s) or "training wheels" (e.g. ultegra/open pro)?

kinlin xr300 front and rear, so definitely more on the training side of things

switching out a crank is a 3 minute (max) job. 8mm allen key and you are done. C'mon, this ain't rocket science.


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