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  1. #3576
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library if you can't buy it locally.

  2. #3577
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library if you can't buy it locally.
    Thank you sir, Amazon is my friend!

  3. #3578
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
    Yes, Allen and Coggan is still the starting point. You might see if it's at the library
    Only in Austin.

  4. #3579
    Roadie brian416's Avatar
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    Training and Racing with a PM is still the go to book.

  5. #3580
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand

    can someone tell me if in training peaks if I should enter my TT number as the actual average or the TT number - 5%

    my average watts were 270 so do I enter 270 in tp or enter 257 (270-5% and rounded)

    I'm going to redo my tests soon since I botched it and my pacing was really bad and not consistent at all

    I think I can do better in my 5 min test and my FTP if I pace it better instead of my wattage spiking hard at the beginning of my 5 min test and then half blowing up and then trying to hold on.

  6. #3581
    These Guys Eat Oreos Creatre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand

    can someone tell me if in training peaks if I should enter my TT number as the actual average or the TT number - 5%

    my average watts were 270 so do I enter 270 in tp or enter 257 (270-5% and rounded)

    I'm going to redo my tests soon since I botched it and my pacing was really bad and not consistent at all

    I think I can do better in my 5 min test and my FTP if I pace it better instead of my wattage spiking hard at the beginning of my 5 min test and then half blowing up and then trying to hold on.
    You have to manually do the FTP number, so you would enter the 257 into training peaks (because the 270 would be a 20min power best, not 60min which is FTP). I'm not sure about everyone else, but I usually round to the closest 5. So I would round that 257 to a 255 or a 260 depending on how I felt the test went (if I paced bad, or if I felt like I had more left, etc). Plus I can't stand having a weird number like 257 be my FTP haha, OCD much!

    Don't worry about botching the tests at first. Just go ahead and do a few weeks with your FTP as what you got estimated from the test. You will see over the course of the weeks after doing some workouts if it is a little low or high. You will get a better feel for the power range you can sustain for the test, and you will pace yourself better when you do your next test.

    Just to make sure, you did a 20min test right, the 5min test was a different test right?
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  7. #3582
    grilled cheesus aham23's Avatar
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    testing really is hard. i have to be mentally ready to do a FTP test on the trainer. i too round it to the closet 5. as for calibrating a PM i think you mean zero'ing it, even though a garmin using the term calibrating it really isnt doing that. i dont think it makes that much of a difference, unless you are seeing odd numbers that is. later.

  8. #3583
    Roadie brian416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
    did my FTP test last night but I botched it by forgetting to claibrate my pm before hand
    What type of PM do you have & headunit do you have? Chances are your PM was recording an accurate number.

    My powertap is really stable and the zero offset hardly moves.
    My Srm isn't as stable, but it autozeros with my Garmin, so its accurate even if I forget to zero it.

  9. #3584
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    I have a Quarq 975 and a garmin edge 705

    I did do separate 5 minute and 20minute tests.

    I'll keep the numbers for now and see how they feel, if they do not feel right I will re-test.

  10. #3585
    grilled cheesus aham23's Avatar
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    ^^^^ the calibrating is just a zero'ing and not something that should make a difference in the data. unless something is wrong with the unit. some riders dont even do the pre ride "calibrate." enjoy. later.

  11. #3586
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aham23 View Post
    ^^^^ the calibrating is just a zero'ing and not something that should make a difference in the data. unless something is wrong with the unit. some riders dont even do the pre ride "calibrate." enjoy. later.
    I don't think that is true...Quarq recommends zeroing before every ride. And I would suggest, zeroing mid-ride too if there are any big temperature swings.

  12. #3587
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
    I don't think that is true...Quarq recommends zeroing before every ride. And I would suggest, zeroing mid-ride too if there are any big temperature swings.
    I calibrate mine before every ride and zero it during the ride usually when the temp noticeably rises.

  13. #3588
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian416 View Post
    Chances are your PM was recording an accurate number.
    If you've been zeroing the unit each ride using the Garmin 'calibrate' function (which Quarq calls a manual zero), chances are your Quarq was very close even if you didn't zero it at the start of your test ride. From my discussions with a Quarq tech, and my subsequent experience, it has more to do with the crank bolts than the temp. I have a SRAM RED S975, and my typical calibration number was well outside the recommended range, even after break-in, and after loosening and re-torqueing the bolts a couple of times, then letting the numbers settle. It would also drift very significantly during a ride. Quarg replaced the SRAM bolts with FSA bolts, and changed my base zero offset to put the calibration back in the normal range, even though that really doesn't matter. The drift is now negligible, even with extreme temperatures, and I've stopped logging the beginning and ending calibration numbers. The zero correction from the Garmin calibrate, or from peddling backwards, is added to the factory set base offset to get the b value of the basic y = mx + b slope formula.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  14. #3589
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Any potential error in the measurement device will most likely be eclipsed by the estimation inherent in a 5/20 minute FTP test.

  15. #3590
    Draught jwible's Avatar
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    What is the biggest calibration error anyone has seen? I almost never calibrate mine. Which way do they tend to drift? Lower numbers or (oh god I hope not) higher numbers?

  16. #3591
    Senior Member SalsaPodio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwible View Post
    What is the biggest calibration error anyone has seen? I almost never calibrate mine. Which way do they tend to drift? Lower numbers or (oh god I hope not) higher numbers?
    Mine was so off my sprint was recorded as 300W, when the best I've ever done was 1400W. It's at Saris right now getting repaired.
    Road: Cat 2|Cross: Cat 2

  17. #3592
    Making a kilometer blurry waterrockets's Avatar
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    My PT has been a good 20W low if I don't zero it. I need to try out a couple things, but I'm wondering if my trackstanding is messing up its autozero. I'm also wondering if it could be a warmup issue bringing the strain gauges from room temperature to ride temp (20 degrees higher).

  18. #3593
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    What head unit are most of you guys using? I've got a PT wheel coming soon and I'm deliberating between the Joule and the Garmin 500. To me it appears that the Joule can display more real-time data related to power whereas the garmin is more of an all round computer which displays power.

    Thoughts? TIA

  19. #3594
    grilled cheesus aham23's Avatar
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    garmin 500. i see no need for real time TSS, NP, IF, ect... too many numbers give one too many excuses. 3 sec avg power is the gold standard. ymmv. later.

  20. #3595
    negligent. slynkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCS2 View Post
    What head unit are most of you guys using? I've got a PT wheel coming soon and I'm deliberating between the Joule and the Garmin 500. To me it appears that the Joule can display more real-time data related to power whereas the garmin is more of an all round computer which displays power.

    Thoughts? TIA
    Garmin 500 is supposed to get a firmware update before the Vector release that will give it TSS, NP, IF display fields.

  21. #3596
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    hi guys - i don't have a power meter yet and don't have the funds for one at the moment. however, i'd like to get one in the future, and as i was thinking about it, i got curious...

    if you can only buy one, what's the best way to set it up? put a powertap on a training wheel and then either have to race with that or ditch it for races? put it on a race wheel and have to train with the race wheel? get crank-based and not be able to switch it to your TT bike (or to your road bike)?

    if this has already been answered somewhere, sorry. thanks!

  22. #3597
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by climber7 View Post
    hi guys - i don't have a power meter yet and don't have the funds for one at the moment. however, i'd like to get one in the future, and as i was thinking about it, i got curious...

    if you can only buy one, what's the best way to set it up? put a powertap on a training wheel and then either have to race with that or ditch it for races? put it on a race wheel and have to train with the race wheel? get crank-based and not be able to switch it to your TT bike (or to your road bike)?

    if this has already been answered somewhere, sorry. thanks!
    you can get a new set of ptap wheels for ~$1200, and the total weight should be ~1800g or less

    switching crank is easy assuming you have the same BB on all your bikes

    personally i race and train on the same wheels. You may know of a certain alumnus named Bennette who kicked ass and took names while racing on some heavy powertap clinchers

  23. #3598
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    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    switching crank is easy assuming you have the same BB on all your bikes
    i guess. seems like it'd be a little bit of a hassle for a stage race or something but i probably wouldn't mind. it'd be nice to be able to switch wheels whenever. wish crank-based wasn't so expensive though.

    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    personally i race and train on the same wheels.
    ok - but are they "race wheels" (e.g. zipp 404s) or "training wheels" (e.g. ultegra/open pro)?

    Quote Originally Posted by echappist View Post
    You may know of a certain alumnus named Bennette who kicked ass and took names while racing on some heavy powertap clinchers
    before my time, but yeah, i've heard of him.

    anyone else? just interested to know what people are doing about this.

  24. #3599
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I train with a PT wheel and race mainly without it. I used it in early season races to keep an eye on fitness, but used the lighter, quicker wheels as the season rolled on (boo).

    If I had the scratch I'd have a crank based power meter. I saw an FSA Amateur wired SRM on ST yesterday for $750. Prices are coming down.

  25. #3600
    fuggitivo solitario echappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by climber7 View Post
    i guess. seems like it'd be a little bit of a hassle for a stage race or something but i probably wouldn't mind. it'd be nice to be able to switch wheels whenever. wish crank-based wasn't so expensive though.



    ok - but are they "race wheels" (e.g. zipp 404s) or "training wheels" (e.g. ultegra/open pro)?
    kinlin xr300 front and rear, so definitely more on the training side of things

    switching out a crank is a 3 minute (max) job. 8mm allen key and you are done. C'mon, this ain't rocket science.

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